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I need a moa expert here

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Post by smsnyder on 8/17/2020, 2:33 pm

First topic message reminder :

I am shooting a Ruger 204 40 gr Hornaday v max bullet out of a 14 inch contender. About 4000 FPS.  So far I had several groundhog kill shots over 250 yards. Just bought a vortex scope that has MOA readings etched in the glass . Its a 3x18x44 strike eagle scope. Its simply a stunning scope. $500 scope for $299 at Euro Optics. Its is every bit as good as my Zeiss and Swarovski scope. My ruger drop chart is as follows according to hornaday.   100 yards 0.7, 200 yards 0, 300 yards -4.3, 400 yards -13.2, 500 yards -28.1. I need to convert the bullet drop inches to MOA . Thanks


Last edited by smsnyder on 8/17/2020, 2:41 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 8/18/2020, 8:13 am

I have had good results using the Sierra ballistics software.
You can scratch  your head bald and spend hours and dollars obtaining your own raw data or spend a half hour punching numbers & writing notes.
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Post by JKR on 8/18/2020, 8:50 am

Better yet, take it out and shoot it. Record your come ups. Mine are taped on the side of my rifles. 
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Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 8/18/2020, 9:07 am

JKR wrote:Better yet, take it out and shoot it. Record your come ups. Mine are taped on the side of my rifles. 
JKR
That's where obtaining the raw data comes in.
I start with what the ballistic program tells me SHOULD be happening & spend a couple rounds verifying it.
I have friends who love to reload & experiment with their rifles but I don't want to spend a couple hours loading 100 rounds and then walk them in(specially when I'm limited on range time).
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Post by JKR on 8/18/2020, 9:27 am

Yes. Raw data will get you close. I’ve used the Serria ballistic data to get on paper at 1000 yards. Don’t depend on it to get you in the X ring though.
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Post by Jeff Porter on 8/18/2020, 10:00 am

smsnyder wrote:Is this right ??? 28.1 inch bullet drop divided by 500 yards divided by 100 =562 MOA in my scope? So i would have to use the 5 hash/crosshair mark in the scope? All hash parks are 1 moa apart in the scope.

 12 inch bullet drop divided by 400 yards divided by 100 =0.0003.  So i would have to put the Moa crosshair in the scope on number 3 hash mark?

Wow i even have 1 moa Turret knobs on the scope. now I have to figure out click adjustments. LOL
 no that is not right.   28" at 500 yards is roughly 5.5 moa,   I think you are in the right church but in the wrong pew with your calculator.   take yards divided by 100 first. 500/100 = 5  then divide the drop by that number 28.1/5= 5.62 MOA - or in between the 5th ad 6th hash,

400/100=4  12/4=3 MOA  - third hash down

Alternately, dial the scope up 4 clicks per MOA - or  22 clicks up for 500 and 16 clicks up for 400.  



One other thing to fry your mind..... The Vortex hash marks are in the second focal plane on that scope.  The sub-tensions are only accurate at maximum magnification.  Meaning the marks are 1 MOA at 18x but 2 moa at 9x....

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Post by Jeff Porter on 8/18/2020, 10:04 am

https://vortexoptics.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/1155/product_id/3039/

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Post by smsnyder on 8/18/2020, 10:07 am

My head is spinning. Do clicks adjustments work the same way. Each click is 1/4 moa at 100 yards. 4 clicks are 1 inch movement. How many click to adjust for 400 yards?

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Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 8/18/2020, 10:26 am

if one click gives 1/4" change at 100, it will move the aiming point 1" at 400 yards.
Keep in mind that changing aiming point may not move the point of impact by exactly the same number.
You are changing the angle of departure, but the bullet travels on a parabolic trajectory...so there are other gorillas in the mix.  That Newton guy did a lot more than make a great cookie.
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Post by Jeff Porter on 8/18/2020, 10:35 am

Ok let's slow down a step.  

Inches are linear measurements.  You know how these work already.

Minutes of Angle are angular measurements and will change with the distance from the observer.  Think of a piece of pie.  It has the same angle between the edges from the tip to the crust but the crust is a longer linear distance than any other point back to the tip where the distance in inches is almost zero but the angle between the edges is the same as at the crust. 

A minute of angle is 1/60th of a degree.  if you take two strings from your scope and extend them out to 500 yards and set them 25" apart they are  5 MOA apart..... if you come back to 400 yards.... the strings are closer together.  They would be 20" apart.... but still the same angle of 5 moa apart. When you move into 300 yards and the strings are now 15" apart and the angular distance apart is still..... 5 moa.  200 is 10" , 100 yards is 5" apart and still.... 5 MOA.

When I shoot in service rifle, the targets at 200 yards have a 12" black,  at 300 the black is 18" and at 600 the black is 36" across. When you look down an iron sight or a scope... the black all looks the same size in teh sights because they all cover 6 MOA, even though the actual distance is different at each yard line. 

Now when shooting a slow prone target in service rifle, the scoring rings from x-8 are 0.5 moa apart.   You can get reduced course 600 yard simulated targets for 100-200 or 300 yards and while the black and the scoring rings are of different size for the different distances, they are still 0.5 MOA so on those targets, it does not matter how far away they are, a scoring ring is two 1/4 moa clicks on the scope per scoring line.  So if you were blown into the 9 ring on the right side... you would put 1 full MOA or 4 clicks to get back across the two scoring rings of 10 and X to get into the middle no matter what distance you are shooting.   

With your reticle - (at 18x) - you do not need to turn the knobs.  Once you know the distance and your drop in MOA at those distances you just hold over and shoot.  or in the wind hold into the wind the predicted amount of MOA for that distance and shoot.  Now reading wind at distance.... that is a whole 'nuther thread altogether... Luckily with the 204 it is moving fast enough it is not as big a factor out to 300 yards.

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Post by Jeff Porter on 8/18/2020, 10:43 am

One more thing..... the initial dope you presented assumes a 200 yard zero with impact 3/4" high at 100. Is that where your pistol shoots now?  

I know this is a bit overwhelming since you have been very successful with the old simple scope but you will probably end up just setting it up with a 200 yard zero and hold a hash high for 300 and not shoot any farther than that.

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Post by smsnyder on 8/18/2020, 10:49 am

My goal is a 500 yards kill shot on a groundhog with a 14 inch 204 ruger contender pistol

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Post by Wobbley on 8/18/2020, 11:00 am

This is from the Hornady online ballistic calculator.  Not the 4DOF, the standard.  I put in a BC of .275 G1, MV=4000, and Bulket weight of 40 and a zero of 200 yards.

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/standard








RangeVelocityEnergyTrajectoryCome Up (MOA)Come Up (MILS)Wind DriftWind Drift (MOA)Wind Drift (MILS)
040001421.0-1.50.00.0000
10035721133.00.6-0.6-0.2000
2003186901.00.00.00.0000
3002832712.0-4.11.30.4000
4002506558.0-12.53.00.9000
5002201430.0-26.55.11.5000
6001919327.0-47.77.62.2000
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Post by smsnyder on 8/18/2020, 11:14 am

Thanks a bunch

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Post by Jack H on 8/18/2020, 1:19 pm

smsnyder wrote:Is this right ??? 28.1 inch bullet drop divided by 500 yards divided by 100 =562 MOA in my scope? So i would have to use the 5 hash/crosshair mark in the scope? All hash parks are 1 moa apart in the scope.

 12 inch bullet drop divided by 400 yards divided by 100 =0.0003.  So i would have to put the Moa crosshair in the scope on number 3 hash mark?

Wow i even have 1 moa Turret knobs on the scope. now I have to figure out click adjustments. LOL
Look again at the equations.  I forgot the ( )'s .  You do equations from inside out.  (Yards/100), then drop divided by that. 
And I was a math major at UO.  Brain fart.  Go Ducks!
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Post by Tripscape on 8/18/2020, 8:29 pm

Deleted.. Sorry, was not responding to latest comment.

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