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I Am Considering a FWB AW93

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mikemyers
Dan Webb
jshank
Lefty
Liontracks
Multiracer
Larry2520
-TT-
mspingeld
radjag
Oleg G
CrankyThunder
chiz1180
JKR
STEVE SAMELAK
rkittine
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Post by rkittine 8/18/2020, 7:53 am

I currently have a High Standard Victor, a Smith and Wesson Model 41 with 7 3/8" barrel and mussel break, a Colt Serives 70 Gold Cup with a Target model .22 Conversion kit and a Buckmark Bull Barrel Target .22 LR.

Is the AW93 that much better than these for Bullseye? Champion's Choice has them in stock. Reading through some post, it seems like some do not like the grips nor the trigger.

I just got a set of Rink Grips in Small for one of my pistols, which was the size they suggested. I have been able to adjust them open enough to use, but I think I would have been better off with Mediums, which they say have plenty of lattitude for adjustment. My longest finger is 85mm and the distance across my knuckles on the back of my hand is 84.7mm. So since Champion's Choice has these with Small or Large grips and nothing in between, what would you think would be best? CC is telling me that the large will adjust down enough.

Thanks, Bob
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Post by STEVE SAMELAK 8/18/2020, 8:07 am

All the guns you have are adequate.
The only true way (to me) to determine which is best for you, is for you to shoot it.
Personally... I want all the toys, but I do have a wife.
If you don't end up loving the AW93 it should be easy to sell.
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Post by rkittine 8/18/2020, 8:24 am

I had one of them too. (A wife) but no more. I do have a fiancé of 23 years though but she makes a lot more money than me so I don’t get any grief .
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Post by JKR 8/18/2020, 8:46 am

I’ve never owned an AW93 but I’ve had the opportunity to shoot with one. Beautifully made pistol. Accurate, reliable, awesome trigger. You have to jump through some hoops for scope mounting compared to other high end pistols. Glad I had the opportunity to try one. It turned out not to be my first choice.
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Post by chiz1180 8/18/2020, 8:51 am

AW's are good guns. As far as better hard to say as that is an individual thing. I shot one for a NMC during a league a while back, I did not magically clean targets or score higher than what my average at the time. Reliability is better than most high standards and 41's that I see on the line.

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Post by CrankyThunder 8/18/2020, 9:40 am

Hi rkittine:

I own, shoot, and compete with a number of high quality 22 rimfire firearms and one of the pistols I shoot a lot is the FWB AW 093.  

The FWB has a lot going for it, accurate, reliable, durable, while it is not my favorite gun in the stable, I would be perfectly content shooting it as my only rimfire pistol.  A very very very good pistol. 

You mention that you have a medium size hand and give measurements.  Well, our hands are similar in size, my hand is 85 mms across the knuckles (maybe 86) and my trigger finger is 72 mm from the middle finger crotch to the tip.  I also measure 115 mm from the thumb crotch to the tip of my middle finger.  Well, maybe my finger is shorter but you might want to take another measurement.  Anyways, I have the standard FWB grips that came with the pistol and I also had Dick Horton make a custom set for my measurements.  Quite frankly, with the magazine positioned in the grip, the FWB is a bit too big for my hands and the grip is as small as the geometrics of the pistol will allow.  

I also have a couple S&W model 41s that I shoot, one with the Dick Horton Grips and the other with Nils grips.  The original model 41 grips were too small and the Nils are just about perfect.  the Horton Grips are a touch too big, I have to stretch my trigger finger just like the FWB AW 093.

With that being said, I would recommend that you check out the Pardini SP Bullseye edition.  I also own a Pardini with Dick Horton Grips and with the magazine forward design, Dick was able to make a set of grips that truly fit my hand.  My trigger finger is positioned perfectly and the firearm is a joy to shoot.  It is my favorite bullseye pistol.  When switching from the Pardini to the 093 or 41, the Horton Grips are noticeably smaller on the Pardini.  

I have owned my Pardini since 2013 when I bought it brand new.  It is a Bullseye edition and has been remarkably reliable.  I know that a magazine is supposed to be in the grip of a pistol like the good lord John Moses Browning intended but I make a exception with the Pardini.  Aesthetically, I like the FWB but shoot the Pardini lots betterer.  

Adding a red dot to the Pardini is not a big deal, it keeps its zero when I remove the barrel for cleaning.  the FWB you need a Brzinski mount to replace the rear sight.  A bridge used to be available for the FWB but it needed to be removed to remove the bolt for cleaning.  With the Brzinski mount you have to be careful which red dot you select, I have a holosun and I can remove the bolt.  Some other red dots do not provide the clearance required for bolt removal on the FWB.  

One of my teammates also has a FWB with the bridge mount.  He has not removed the bolt for cleaning for a number of years, cleaning it as best he can and his is reliable never the less.  For what it is worth, he has significantly larger hands compared to mine and is over 6 foot tall.  I am 5 foot 8 inches in my stocking feet.  

Bottom line is that if you are considering a FWB AW 093, make sure you try out the Pardini before you send your check out.  If you are ever in Michigan, I would look forward to meeting you at the range and you can shoot mine to your hearts content. 

Regards, 
Crankster
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Post by Oleg G 8/18/2020, 9:42 am

Like others have said - it is a matter of personal choice. I love my AW93 and could not get along with Model 41 and sold it. Others have completely opposite experiences. To me, the biggest advantage of AW93 is the two-stage trigger, but it is not the only Euro pistol with such a trigger. Pardinis and some Hammerlis have it as well.

If you can find one nearby, ask to shoot it...
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Post by rkittine 8/18/2020, 10:14 am

Thanks for all the input. Under the New York Safe Act, I can not own a pistol with a magazine forward of the trigger guard. Some idiot seems to think that you can hold that with your non-trigger finger hand to spray innocent bystanders. So the Pardini is out unfortunately. Could get a Match Guns in .32 S&W Long WC for that reason too even though it is a tubular horizontal magazine.

Before I pay $2,500 and another $400 for grips, maybe I will try shooting my Victor more first.

Bob
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Post by radjag 8/18/2020, 10:15 am

Whilst I have never handled or shot an FWB AW93, it seems to me that the only real advantage over the (way more popular) Pardini SP22 is the fact that the magazine is in the grip. I understand that some jurisdictions in USA classify Pardini's and similar forward magazine handguns as Assault Weapons and are therefore prohibited.

Cost is similar.
Scope mounts more difficult.
Less popular and therefore probably harder to get advice/support.
Grip sizes less flexible.
Not possible to add a CF conversion.

Pardini wins that game I think.

Ah! Whilst I was writing this OP commented on NY restriction. OK.

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Post by mspingeld 8/18/2020, 10:22 am

Doug Hall makes a scope mount as does Brenzovich.
I bought mine from Brenzovich and George was great with advice, pre & post purchase.
I agree on the grip. Didn't like the factory but that's why Rink is in business. 30-40 days to get the Rink.
Correct, no conversion.

I got the AW93 and sold the Pardini. Don't get me wrong, the Pardini is an excellent pistol. I just didn't like the muzzle heavy balance. The AW93 feels much better to me.

Bob, I sent you a PM.

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Post by rkittine 8/18/2020, 10:32 am

Thanks Mike - I am staying at my place in Sag Harbor since the shut down, but when I get back into Manhattan I will take you up on that. I only just found out too that I can bring hand guns to a range in New Jersey from New York.

Bob
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Post by -TT- 8/18/2020, 2:56 pm

I shoot a Feiwerkbau AW93, along with a Benelli MP90S. While I personally prefer the MP90S, the AW93 is a very good gun, nearly 100% reliable and beautifully behaved. The recoil system is nice, and the "light" model can be adjusted with external weights, although the regular model is close to perfectly compensated.

The trigger is highly adjustable, but is relatively "long" and requires this length for proper reset. You can adjust the weight and stages, but it will always have a certain "roll" character. I think you might find it hard to get used to at first, given your other listed pistols. But it might help you in the long run!

One important thing about the trigger is that it will punish your every mistake. It has certainly pointed out my issues. Once you shoot it well, it will reward you however.

Doug Hall's mount is a great addition for reflex or Aimpoint-type sights. It replaces the rear sight, and does require some carving-out of the grip at the very top, to allow the rearward clearance. There are some other solutions which bridge the front and rear sights to provide a rail, but they're hard to find these days.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Feinwerkbau-AW-93-Scope-mount/124020926335

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Post by Larry2520 8/18/2020, 3:40 pm

One thing to consider is if it breaks how hard will it be to get someone to work on it. Are parts and aftermarket accessories available etc..

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Post by Oleg G 8/18/2020, 8:42 pm

Pilkington worked on mine when I ran into trouble - they have the expertise and the parts. The gun now works perfectly and is 100% reliable.

http://www.pilkguns.com/
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Post by Multiracer 8/19/2020, 6:30 pm

JKR wrote:I’ve never owned an AW93 but I’ve had the opportunity to shoot with one. Beautifully made pistol. Accurate, reliable, awesome trigger. You have to jump through some hoops for scope mounting compared to other high end pistols. Glad I had the opportunity to try one. It turned out not to be my first choice.
JKR
Doug Hall makes a scope mount for the short micro style tubes.

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Post by Liontracks 9/9/2020, 9:42 pm

So what's the bullseye wadcutter in .45 that everyone loves around here?

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Post by Lefty 9/9/2020, 9:57 pm

rkittine wrote:Thanks for all the input. Under the New York Safe Act, I can not own a pistol with a magazine forward of the trigger guard. Some idiot seems to think that you can hold that with your non-trigger finger hand to spray innocent bystanders. So the Pardini is out unfortunately. Could get a Match Guns in .32 S&W Long WC for that reason too even though it is a tubular horizontal magazine.

Before I pay $2,500 and another $400 for grips, maybe I will try shooting my Victor more first.

Bob
Just FYI: Matchguns pistols are illegal in NY state. I have checked; any magazine forward of the trigger guard is ruled out.

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Post by CrankyThunder 9/10/2020, 6:34 am

Dear Rkittine:

If  you do get a AW 093 and decide to put a Brenzovich red dot mount on it, please be careful on the red dots that you select to mount on it.  I am fortunate whereas I had quite a selection of red dots to try when I put the Brenzovich mount on mine, most did not provide the necessary clearance to remove the bolt for cleaning.  While there may be other micro dots out there that will work, for me, when I put the Holosun on the FWB there was enough clearance to remove the bolt for cleaning.  I really wanted to put my Sig Sauer STS 081 red dot on it but it extended too far forward to rotate the bolt up and out of the breach.  


Regards, 
George
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Post by mspingeld 9/10/2020, 8:35 am

I used Doug Hall's mount with a Larue quick release and an Aimpoint Micro. I can remove the dot to disassemble the gun. Holds zero when reinstalled.

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Post by jshank 4/15/2021, 7:44 am

I also was conserdering an AW93.  My son and I each bought an AW93’s back in late 2020 one new and the other a used one.  We have shot hundreds of rounds through each one since then.  These are fantastic pistols with fully adjustable triggers.  We both have the triggers set differently as he prefers more of a rolling trigger and I prefer a two-stage trigger though we are still experimenting with different settings.  I especially like the fact that they can be dry-fired giving us a chance to practice trigger control between visits to the range.  Both have Aimpoint H-1 optics mounted on a BTFC and a Doug Hall mount. We also changed out the original grips to Rink grips which are in our opinion nicer as they fit our hands much better.  These are fantastic pistols and I would highly recommend the purchase of one.

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Post by Dan Webb 4/15/2021, 2:37 pm

Champion's Choice will mount a dot on this gun for free, provided you buy the gun and dot from them.

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Post by mikemyers 4/15/2021, 4:44 pm

For anyone to whom this is applicable, how did your scores with the new AW3 compare with the scores of your previous guns, after a few weeks getting used to them?  Is there improvement "in your hands", or "in your minds"?
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Post by Sa-tevp 4/15/2021, 5:55 pm

mikemyers wrote:For anyone to whom this is applicable, how did your scores with the new AW3 compare with the scores of your previous guns, after a few weeks getting used to them?  Is there improvement "in your hands", or "in your minds"?

My scores improved. The bad shots were not as bad as with other tuned up 22 pistols*. First 22 I shot 10 ring size Timed Fire groups with. I've shot several all 22 2700s swapping 22s and my AW93 did best every time. The pistol shoots great if you get out of its way. Razorenov and Khaidurov were geniuses.

(* S&W M41, Nelson Conversion, Ruger Mk III, Hammerli X-esse)

I would definitely buy a Pardini if there were 25m Rapid Fire events around me.
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Post by mikemyers 4/15/2021, 6:14 pm

Sa-tevp wrote:
My scores improved. The bad shots were not as bad as with other tuned up 22 pistols......
Maybe I'm asking the impossible, but do you think you know what it was about this new gun that led to the improved scores?

As an example, the most stable gun out of all the bullseye guns I own is my Salyer/Springfield.  It often gets me overlapping holes, and in dry fire, it's somehow "locked in place".  The only other gun I have used that feels mostly this way, is my Model 41, and  only with the stock grips.  All my other guns feel like they are being held in some sort of "mount", and then gun is more "free" to move around within that mount.  Other guns include High Standard and Nelson.  Both the 45 and the Model 41 feel like they are being held by a rest, and all I need to do is not disturb the gun when my trigger finger builds up enough pressure to fire the gun.  (Oh, and I've tried several different stocks on my Model 41, and the "magic" vanishes when I use any of them.  With the original grips, it feels like I have a Ransom Rest built into my body.   :-)   )

Is that the type of feeling you get, or do all your guns "feel" similar, but this one gun gets you better results?

Is there anything that "feels" different, as you're shooting this and your other guns, or do they all "feel" identical??


(Sorry for the way I'm asking this, but I don't know the proper words to describe what I'm trying to explain - I do know what I "feel", but not the reasons "why".)
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Post by Sa-tevp 4/15/2021, 6:20 pm

mikemyers wrote:
Sa-tevp wrote:
My scores improved. The bad shots were not as bad as with other tuned up 22 pistols......
Maybe I'm asking the impossible, but do you think you know what it was about this new gun that led to the improved scores?

As an example, the most stable gun out of all the bullseye guns I own is my Salyer/Springfield.  It often gets me overlapping holes, and in dry fire, it's somehow "locked in place".  The only other gun I have used that feels mostly this way, is my Model 41, and  only with the stock grips.  All my other guns feel like they are being held in some sort of "mount", and then gun is more "free" to move around within that mount.  Other guns include High Standard and Nelson.  Both the 45 and the Model 41 feel like they are being held by a rest, and all I need to do is not disturb the gun when my finger builds up enough pressure to fire the gun.

Is that the type of feeling you get, or do all your guns "feel" similar, but this one gun gets you better results?

Is there anything that "feels" different, as you're shooting this and your other guns, or do they all "feel" identical??


(Sorry for the way I'm asking this, but I don't know the proper words to describe what I'm trying to explain - I do know what I "feel", but not the reason "why".


Modern 22 designs with adjustable trigger length and feel help, as do recoil management systems, but I think a big help is not having a chunk of metal move over the top of your hand messing up the balance, and lower bore lines. I realize the AMU gets good results with their Hammerlis but they are also younger and stronger and Service Pistol is easier for them too.
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