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Removing rib - loctite screws

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Post by Tripscape on 9/27/2020, 2:09 pm

Seeking help and advice, sorry if this was already posted before but I have a specific question. So trying to remove scope rib but screws are on super tight. Luckily looks like quality screws where allen stripped instead of screw. Probably red loctite. My understanding is that best way to remove is heating it up, specifically spot heating with gas soldering iron that can produce intensity of heat vs minimal flame. Questions 1) is that the best way? Any other way to spot heat? Regular electric soldering iron is a no go as heat dissipates into slide faster than iron heats up.  2) will spot heating with gas soldering iron mess up melonite treatment?
Thank you.

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Post by zanemoseley on 9/27/2020, 2:40 pm

I had to remove a sight base on my 41 that used red loctite and I almost spun out a US made Allen key. I ended up using an electric heat gun. Just heat it up good and test the screw occasionally.

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Post by Kp321 on 9/27/2020, 4:13 pm

A heavy duty electric soldering iron is the answer, not the hobby pencil type. Hold it long enough and the screw will get hot enough to release or at least soften the Loctite. If you need to remove the entire rib, not just one screw, a stripped Allen gives you a good starting pilot to drill it. Use a drill that matches the tap drill size of the screw, #31 for 6-48. The stripped head will pop off when the drill goes deep enough, leaving a short piece of the screw above the slide after the rib is removed. You can then get it out with Visegrips. Needless to say, a drill press with a stable vise is essential.

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Post by Tripscape on 9/27/2020, 4:19 pm

Thankfully screw is not stripped. 
KP, can you please point me to the soldering iron type you are talking about on Amazon?

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Post by Wobbley on 9/27/2020, 4:21 pm

If you don’t have a big soldering iron, a large piece of copper with a point on it can be used.  Heat the copper in a propane torch And then hold it to the top of the screw.  The heat will flow into the screw and that will soften the locktite no matter what color it is.
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Post by Wobbley on 9/27/2020, 4:23 pm

This if you want to try the copper rod

https://www.amazon.com/COPPER-ROUND-Solid-Lathe-Stock/dp/B01F80WDCE/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw8MD7BRArEiwAGZsrBZ-JMrG27cytboefNaZ4pibr7KNxgzyWeBbkB2B1LXMgc6ICxi-QBxoC54YQAvD_BwE&hvadid=241929676295&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9061211&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=9048859760208866751&hvtargid=kwd-297991280821&hydadcr=24665_10401007&keywords=copper+rod&qid=1601241735&sr=8-18&tag=googhydr-20
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Post by swissyhawk on 9/27/2020, 5:09 pm

Would a heat shrink gun provide enough heat?

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Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 9/27/2020, 5:35 pm

A heat shrink gun will spread the heat to the point of being useless.
The heat needs to be concentrated as demonstrated by the rod & torch or HEAVY duty soldering iron.
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Post by Tripscape on 9/27/2020, 6:07 pm

Ordered Weller D650, 200/300W. Should be good to go?

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Post by Larry2520 on 9/27/2020, 6:12 pm

Wouldn't placing the slide in a hot oven do it?

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Post by Kp321 on 9/27/2020, 6:53 pm

Tripscape wrote:Ordered Weller D650, 200/300W. Should be good to go?
Yes, that is what I use myself.

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Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 9/27/2020, 7:35 pm

Larry2520 wrote:Wouldn't placing the slide in a hot oven do it?
In theory it may work if you had an extra pair of trained hands to hold it steady while the other removed the screws.
On the other hand, do want to chance screwing up the heat treating or finish (not to mention the look you may receive from your spouse)?
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Post by Tripscape on 9/27/2020, 7:41 pm

Well, I have red dot sight custom attached directly to the rib, so anything that has to do with heating whole slide is a no go. Also I am sure that heating whole thing will play a number on finish on either rib or slide.

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Post by Larry2520 on 9/27/2020, 8:23 pm

I doubt if the heat from the stove would effect the blue of the slide if the heat from a small soldering torch wouldn't hurt it and putting it in a padded vise would eliminate the need for a spare set of hands!

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Post by Ed Hall on 9/28/2020, 10:27 am

Would heating the tool bit with a small butane torch while it is inserted in the fastener send the heat into the screw sufficiently?

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Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 9/28/2020, 11:00 am

I just replaced the Weigand mount on my wad gun, it was a 5/64 allen bit.
I don't think that it would have worked with that small of a contact area.
I used the propane & copper rod method. I did turn a small dimple on one end to center the rod on the screw had.
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Post by Tripscape on 9/28/2020, 3:51 pm

How is that different than soldering iron directly on screw head?

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Post by STEVE SAMELAK on 9/28/2020, 4:10 pm

how much heat is concentrated in the desired area
unless you have a serious soldering iron the heat often dissipates to other areas beefore getting the desired area hot enough
do you want to heat up the whole slide & mount or just the screw threads?
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Post by Wobbley on 9/28/2020, 5:42 pm

Tripscape wrote:How is that different than soldering iron directly on screw head?
A big chunk of very hot copper touching the top of the screw head has alot of heat and all that heat has to flow through the screw to the slide.  Think of it as a big tank of hot water draining through a valve to another tank.  If the flow is slow enough the valve will heat to near the same temp as the water.  If you have more contact the screw and slide won’t get hot enough.

Not to get too involved in conductive heat transfer, but there’s a lot of heat in a big lump of copper.  That heat has to dissipate into the screw and from the screw to the slide.  The locktite acts as a mild insulator until it melts at which point the heat can go to the slide.  Melting the locktite is the whole point of the exercise.

It’s actually an old gunsmiths trick to soften a spot on a case hardened receiver to be able to drill and tap for a scope mount.
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Post by walt k on 9/28/2020, 5:50 pm

Wobbley wrote:If you don’t have a big soldering iron, a large piece of copper with a point on it can be used.  Heat the copper in a propane torch And then hold it to the top of the screw.  The heat will flow into the screw and that will soften the locktite no matter what color it is.

I will definitely remember this. Very clever.

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Post by Tripscape on 9/28/2020, 5:56 pm

Interesting. Well that Weller electric soldering iron has a spot heat of around 1000 degrees, let's hope it is as advertised and contact area is large enough to transfer. Else I will try the copper trick that somehow feels as a cumbersome exercise. 

Other thing is that screw head is touching the rail, so no matter which way you go it will start transfering heat from the screw head to the rail first.

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Post by Wobbley on 9/28/2020, 9:34 pm

Without going into a ton of heat transfer calculations, (trust me on that) suffice to say that the screw will get hot all the way down the threads As quickly.  Then the sticky goo will melt.
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Post by Tripscape on 10/3/2020, 9:39 pm

Fuc@ing ridiculous. With Welled 650 only 1 screw came lose, others are rock solid. I am trying to find ways to break them free. Break cleaner being one of them.

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Post by PhotoEscape on 10/4/2020, 9:15 am

 Removing rib - loctite screws Img_4915

Take empty roller ball insert, remove tip and push out ball with needle.  Put tip back, and try blowing air through.  Vise your rib, hold gas lighter next to screw you'll be working on, and blow air through the insert on the flame.  That will create mini torch, and will heat subject very quickly to the extent that it might melt it. 

AP
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Post by -TT- on 10/4/2020, 10:05 am

Tripscape wrote:With Welled 650 only 1 screw came lose, others are rock solid.

Did you find evidence of Loctite on the threads?

It's not uncommon that rib screws, installed dry, become stretched, and lock up tight. You have to drill the heads off, at which points the threads release and what's left spins right out.

Similar recent thread: https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t15034-stuck-mounting-screw

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