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The Rulez.

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Schaumannk
Vociferous
clark2245
Wobbley
oldsalt444
James Hensler
robert84010
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javaduke
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dpelletier
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CrankyThunder
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The Rulez. - Page 2 Empty The Rulez.

Post by CrankyThunder 10/17/2020, 8:00 am

First topic message reminder :

The Rulez.
 
Your competition firearms are your life.  They are the best specimens of the best designs using the highest quality materials.  Improvements are done without question, maintenance is top notch and performed immediately after a match or practice session. 


If it is displayed that one of your competition firearms is substandard in any way, it shall be upgraded, repaired, or replaced. Immediately! Period!


The Value of the vehicle that delivers you to the match shall never exceed the value of the firearms you shoot in the match.  

Since your competition firearms are so valuable, thou shalt not trust safety of said firearms to the gorillas in the airline baggage handling department.  With that being said, the only acceptable method of transportation to and from matches are from said vehicle mentioned above.  Firearms shall not remain in unattended vehicle for a period greater then 30 mins, and shall be properly locked up and secured for that less then 30 minute duration.  When Hotels and other lodging is utilized, firearms shall be removed from vehicle and stored in sleeping quarters.  No exceptions shall be made to this rule, even when the vehicle is locked in a secured garage with electronic security systems and intruder alerts. 


.45 ACP matches are shot with .45 ACP caliber firearms and ammo. 
         22LR matches are shot with 22LR caliber firearms and ammo.
         Centerfire matches are shot with .45 caliber firearms and ammo. 
         Revolver matches are shot with .38’s, .357, .45, and in some instances 22LR.
         Bullseye shooters do not use .32 caliber firearms or ammo. 

Pistol boxes are used in one of two conditions: Totally organized or a complete disaster.  Select one.  


There are no scheduled matches too far away.

Your .45 caliber firearm will be a 1911 just as the good lord presented to his deciple John Moses Browning and commanded “Thou shalt slay thein enemies with this 1911 Caliber .45".


Magazines shall be inserted in the grip of the firearm just as the good lord intended with his 1911 masterpiece.  Thou shalt not put a magazine forward of the trigger guard.  


Stickers belong on pistol boxes, they do not belong on guns.  Wimpy Europeans put stickers on their guns and they only shoot wimpy 22LR firearms or .177 air guns.  Bullseye shooters shoot .45’s, 38’s and 22LR without stickers.  


Stickers on pistol boxes shall only display firearm manufacturers, equipment, and suppliers.  I do not care that your kid was on the honor roll at stumpy creek remedial middle school in 2005, put that sticker on your grocery getter.  Shooters displaying a “Gil Hebard Guns, Knoxville, Ill” on their gun box shall get a ½ point added to their bullseye score.  


Scores shall be calculated using a #2 pencil manufactured in the USA using old school math.  Calculations may be performed on the back of used targets if necessary and double checked.  The use of electronic calculators or cell phone apps is prohibited.  


Shooters shall secure their guns with lock and key at all times they are not competing or practicing.  Shooters shall not “loose” their guns.  If a shooter “looses” their competition firearm, they shall be prohibited from all future competition.  (see Stolen Guns Below).


While loosing a firearm is unforgivable,  having a competition firearm stolen is a infrequent, but tragic occurrence.  Shooters suffering from the theft of a firearm shall pursue said thief with the utmost of diligence.  They shall use all methods available to recover stolen firearms, including law enforcement.  Fellow competitors shall make every effort to assist victim in recovery of said firearm.  


Once a firearm is used in competition, that firearm will not be sold, gifted, or “Loaned Indefinitely” to another shooter. The competitor shall own and posess that firearm until death or retirement from the sport.  The only exception is that a firearm may be loaned to a fellow shooter for evaluation purposes for a specified length of time, not to exceed 30 days.  Competition firearms are acquired, competed with, cherished, and hoarded for eventual redistribution via inheritance to a deserving family member or younger, deserving shooter that competitor has mentored.  


Spotting Scopes:  Spotting scopes if utilized shall be ancient Bushnell Spacemaster in a generally deplorable condition.  Shooter will get ½ point added to his score if spotter is a ancient spacemaster with the rotating eyepiece to select various powers. The only exception is the aging shooter with diminished eyesight.  Said shooter may replace ancient spacemaster with current production high quality European spotting scope with a 50 mm objective diameter or less.  


Pistol Boxes shall contain firearms, ammo, spotting scope, spare parts, cleaning supplies, and ECI indicator only.  Extra items such as chewing gum, sunscreen, water bottles, insect repellent, bourbon flask, sandwiches, leftover pizza, etc. shall be carried in a separate rucksack.  


Pistol Boxes shall be transported from vehicle to the shooting line by carrying it awkwardly with a strap over the shoulder.  Pistol boxes shall not be insulted by being placed in a cart, wagon, stroller, or dolly.  


Thou shalt dry fire or live fire practice every day.


When competing, cell phones and other electronic devices shall be stored in vehicle under lock and key.  The only exception is if cell phone is used to broadcast bullseye commands via wired or bluetooth speaker and when operated as such, all external notifications shall be muted.  


Since Bullseye competition is a black and white sport, a shot is either a 9 or a ten, there are no 9 ½. Bullseye shooters shall conduct themselves in the most honest and straightforward manor.  We might be tenacious, we might be insistent, and we can argue if a specific shot is a nine or a ten but once a determination has been made we accept the determination and move on.  We understand that basic honesty is the keystone of this sport and shall avoid any individuals displaying anything less then stellar integrity. 


Absolutely everything on a competitors person shall be made available to a fellow competitor such that said competitor may compete in that match.  We are as a group, proud that we will lend our fellow shooters the ammo they need to beat the snot out of us.  


While we are gracious and humble in victory, we are also courteous and polite when we occupy the “First Looser” position or worse.  Congratulations are given to the winners since we all realize we are only competing with ourselves.


Last edited by CrankyThunder on 10/17/2020, 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : formatting changes to make post more readable)
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Post by CrankyThunder 10/19/2020, 11:43 am

Ok, this happened to me at last nights match....

The rule is try and be discrete when pointing out obvious math errors of your scorer.  

I shot a slow fire target with nothing but 9's and 10's and got scored a 76.  10 distinct separate bullet holes on the target.

Also got a 106 on my first rapid fire target. Again, 10 holes (only ten holes).  

Followed by a 103 on my second rapid fire.  

The scorer was a fully grown adult possibly 40 years old.  Was very friendly and appeared capable and competent.  For all I know he might be struggling with a disability that is not readily apparent.  While shooting the match he followed all the safety rules and did not give me any reason to question his capability to safely handle a firearm.  I was surprised that, if my suspicions are correct, he is unable to add numbers together.  

I re-did my own score sheet, pointed out the obvious errors to the official scorekeeper, and asked him to double check my targets.  Next week I am going to seek that individual out and with a positive attitude, show him some "Tips and Tricks" to score a target.  going to keep him interested and participating in the shooting sports with a little bit of extra effort.  I pray that he has a basic understanding of addition and subtraction.  

Last thing I want to do is discourage a new shooter.  

Regards, 
Crankster
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Post by TonyH 10/19/2020, 12:17 pm

James Hensler wrote:I guess I am not a Bullseye Shooter because I prefer to hit the X Ring with a 32ACP! Who knew?
Youze brokez the rulez! Laughing
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Post by Wobbley 10/19/2020, 12:52 pm

The Value of the vehicle that delivers you to the match shall never exceed the value of the firearms you shoot in the match.  


Then the vehicle I drive to matches won’t be reliable enough to get to matches for this rule:


There are no matches too far away.


Ok, so I get to spend vacations driving from Southern California to Maine or Florida to shoot a small match?  The fastest I’ve been able to drive across the country was 3 days at 800 miles each!  It took me a whole day to drive across Texas!  So this rule is East Coaster BS.  
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Post by clark2245 10/19/2020, 1:06 pm

dpelletier wrote:
CR10X wrote:
[... request a refire and take the new score which cannot exceed score of the highest 10 hits on the original target...]  


I did not know that.
Also keep in mind that there is no lower limit to your score on a refire target, except perhaps zero.   Consider this fact when deciding if the number of points you could possibly gain by refiring the target are worth the risk on the down side, perhaps especially slow fire at Camp Perry on a breezy day, which I have seen people attempt.

Also on the topic of making the NTI or distinguished matches at Camp Perry your first match: please don't.   When coming up to the line there years ago for the service pistol EIC match I noticed the competitor to my right seemed much more excited than might be usual, and soon found out this was the first time he had shot bullseye.   Someone recruited him to come add to the number of non-distinguished on the line and he had no real clue what we were doing.   I wasn't so concerned about the scoring, I could always challenge the target if needed, but was concerned about cross firing.   I tried to stress the idea of checking his target number each time he raised the pistol, but it didn't help.   Fortunately he put all his cross fires on the target to his right, which turned out to be the person who brought him.   Seemed like karma at work to me.

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Post by James Hensler 10/19/2020, 1:51 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:
James Hensler wrote:I guess I am not a Bullseye Shooter because I prefer to hit the X Ring with a 32ACP! Who knew?
You lost me James?
Jon
The author said real bullseye shooters don’t use 32 or their ammo
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Post by Jon Eulette 10/19/2020, 2:51 pm

Hell I remember Darius Young hammering 890’s with 32 long. 2677 Grand Aggregate shooting 32 long.
Author needs to edit lol
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Post by robert84010 10/19/2020, 7:35 pm

On the subject of stickers, to the OP, you are WRONG. Stickers on Euro pistols are from events like a World Cup or National Championship. They are earned and coveted. I shed a tear, I mean, something gets in my eye every time my NTI sticker eventually falls off my ball gun.

My ball gun currently has 4 pieces of inspection tape on the trigger guard. I've seen gunsmiths complain about a pistol being dirty but they never say "there are too many inspection stickers here."

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Post by Vociferous 10/20/2020, 8:00 am

Between shots in slow fire, one must wiggle one's hips, like Elvis.
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Post by straybrit 10/20/2020, 11:28 am

Dcforman wrote:Though it may not be evident to the new shooter, getting stuck between two master shooters on the line in a 2700 is actually pretty awesome, if you're willing to listen and ask questions.

Heh - easiest/most informative match I ever had was getting placed between Steve Reiter and John Zurek. One one side I only needed the fingers of one hand to work out the score (and not all of them) - on the other I was getting "what were you thinking just then" when pointing to an 8.

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Post by bruce martindale 10/20/2020, 11:59 am

Open squadding on CMP matches has given me more than one disaster and a few loads in my pants. I have suggested they stop doing that. Can't be worried about my safety AND shoot well.

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Post by Schaumannk 10/20/2020, 1:35 pm

CrankyThunder wrote:Ok, this happened to me at last nights match....

The rule is try and be discrete when pointing out obvious math errors of your scorer.  

I shot a slow fire target with nothing but 9's and 10's and got scored a 76.  10 distinct separate bullet holes on the target.

Also got a 106 on my first rapid fire target. Again, 10 holes (only ten holes).  

Followed by a 103 on my second rapid fire.  

The scorer was a fully grown adult possibly 40 years old.  Was very friendly and appeared capable and competent.  For all I know he might be struggling with a disability that is not readily apparent.  While shooting the match he followed all the safety rules and did not give me any reason to question his capability to safely handle a firearm.  I was surprised that, if my suspicions are correct, he is unable to add numbers together.  

I re-did my own score sheet, pointed out the obvious errors to the official scorekeeper, and asked him to double check my targets.  Next week I am going to seek that individual out and with a positive attitude, show him some "Tips and Tricks" to score a target.  going to keep him interested and participating in the shooting sports with a little bit of extra effort.  I pray that he has a basic understanding of addition and subtraction.  

Last thing I want to do is discourage a new shooter.  

Regards, 
Crankster
Yea but.   Scoring discrepancies officially need to be settled at the target.  Also your job is to teach a newbie to properly score a target, while at the same time reassuring him, that he is at a friendly match, and not at Nationals where tempers might get hot, if he makes errors.  Of course  if the shot values are correct on the scorecard  then maybe you can sort it out with the match director.   Make it a friendly teaching moment.   I always add a “check my math” statement after scoring, because when I am feeling whipped, and it is 101 degrees out, I can make some really bone headed errors.

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Post by Schaumannk 10/20/2020, 1:49 pm

bruce martindale wrote:Open squadding on CMP matches has given me more than one disaster and a few loads in my pants. I have suggested they stop doing that. Can't be worried about my safety AND shoot well.
The CMP is not noted for their ability to actually run matches, in a safe and efficient way.   I fear for the Camp Perry experience where they Will either learn how to do it on the job, or fail miserably, and kill the experience for regular shooters who have high expectations for organizational competency.   

No substitute for a good NRA match director who has been doing this gig for forty years.  Thank you to all of those on this board who run those matches I enjoy so much.  


Even once in a while, you run into either an idiot or a jackass on the line.  And if the match directors don’t correct it, or are actually part of the problem, it can easily ruin the atmosphere of the entire match.  
Had a friend totally soured on returning to Cardinal this next year because of a really bad call by a range officer quoting a rule that didn’t exist, and then launch into a screaming fit at Canton when he was politely confronted with the rule book about the bad ruling a few days earlier.  

Since the shooter in question is my most reliable car pool buddy,  that experience may have them down two to four shooters who won’t be attending next year.

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Post by CR10X 10/20/2020, 4:27 pm

Schaumannk: Sorry to hear about your friend's experience. That's one reason I encourage everyone to actually read the rule book and encourage match officials to refer to the book whenever possible.  Lots of people have gotten a bad call.  But that's not a reason to go off on anyone either.  People that get too tied up about stuff like that generally need to be more relaxed to shoot bullseye.

And as far as Doc Young goes,  I loved to watch him shoot the short line.  One time I saw him shoot the first shot and then just enlarged the hole with the next 4 shots. I was just a new shooter then and just stood there with my mouth hanging open...


Last edited by CR10X on 10/21/2020, 5:40 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by aub1957 10/20/2020, 4:58 pm

CrankyThunder wrote:Ok, this happened to me at last nights match....

The rule is try and be discrete when pointing out obvious math errors of your scorer.  

I shot a slow fire target with nothing but 9's and 10's and got scored a 76.  10 distinct separate bullet holes on the target.

Also got a 106 on my first rapid fire target. Again, 10 holes (only ten holes).  

Followed by a 103 on my second rapid fire.  

The scorer was a fully grown adult possibly 40 years old.  Was very friendly and appeared capable and competent.  For all I know he might be struggling with a disability that is not readily apparent.  While shooting the match he followed all the safety rules and did not give me any reason to question his capability to safely handle a firearm.  I was surprised that, if my suspicions are correct, he is unable to add numbers together.  

I re-did my own score sheet, pointed out the obvious errors to the official scorekeeper, and asked him to double check my targets.  Next week I am going to seek that individual out and with a positive attitude, show him some "Tips and Tricks" to score a target.  going to keep him interested and participating in the shooting sports with a little bit of extra effort.  I pray that he has a basic understanding of addition and subtraction.  

Last thing I want to do is discourage a new shooter.  

Regards, 
Crankster

Could be a liberal arts major like myself...

"I was told there would be no math..."

You guys have mercy on us newbies... a lot of moving parts to this Bullseye pistol business. I am a rifle guy. Attempting to consistently shoot a pistol accurately is the hardest thing I've ever done.

This is a good thread with lots of good info. Wish I'd been able to read this thread prior to shooting my first paper target match. Prior to I had only shot electronic targets. Shooting between two masters/high masters is nerve wracking as hell. I do ask questions though and I know that 10x10=100. Will be attaching a calculator to my clipboard next time, however.

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Post by TonyH 10/20/2020, 7:47 pm

Wasn’t the OP tongue-in-cheek humor or did I miss the spirit of the post completely? The thread sure took a twist for the serious.....
Newbies are always made more than welcome at any matches we hold locally and we take the time to teach them the ropes as needed. Prior to the winter league we hold two sessions (to give all a chance to attend) for new shooters and teach them how to score, and the in and outs of being on the firing line and what is expected.
Without new shooters there is no way for this sport to grow.....encourage them, love them and they will keep coming back and a lot of them will bring friends!
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Post by CR10X 10/21/2020, 6:04 am

Yes, the OP was posting tongue in cheek, but even then as everyone from beginners to masters read stuff here and it was posted in Fundamentals it could use the perspective.

I've probably gotten into the sport and had as many new shooters on the line as anyone (except for sure Willie Trowell and Clark Hardesty) and have had experiences that would make anyone proud to know that shooter and others that would make you just walk away shaking your head in disbelief. 

Sometimes the discussion of other's experiences are good for serving as examples of what can / has happened and prepare one for dealing with those issues should they happen to them.   

So a little seriousness to offset the tongue in cheek start seems to me round out the potential environment of Bullseye shooting and what one might run into.  

I've never see a situation where anyone was not encouraged to participate and shoot to the best of their ability and enjoyment. I've loaned out more guns and given away more ammo than I can remember (if you're running the match you can't shoot anyway but I bring my gear for those that just show up or have problems.  Any you have to shoot my ammo in my guns.)

But Match Directors also have to be the ones to make decisions and handle situations that require authority to ensure the safety and fairness for all the competitors, not just a single competitor.  I've had to disqualify new shooters in IPSC / USPSA and also in Bullseye or correct and guide them through issues.  It ain't fun, but almost all of them took it as a learning experience, but there will always be some that simply refuse to understand what they did or learn from what they were instructed.  That makes it a tough job sometimes.

So, sorry for some more seriousness, but you all know I'm kinda known for putting the "con" in conversations.....

Anyway, y'all shoot when you can, have fun and hope for a better 2021.  I can say that with all the free time from not running matches, our range never looked better with new paint and repairs, new target numbers, updated wireless PA system and some benches replaced.  Hope everyone gets to see it next year.

Thanks again for shooting bullseye, wherever you are!  I'll bet Cranky never thought the post would run this long....

CR


Last edited by CR10X on 10/22/2020, 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by TonyH 10/21/2020, 7:05 am

Cranky is still busy using the "new" math to correctly score his target .....lol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA&feature=emb_logo
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Post by CrankyThunder 10/21/2020, 8:03 am

Oh Jees guys, lighten up!    oooolleeeeeee  merde!

Of course it was written with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek.  

And for what it is worth, I deliberatly spelled "loose" incorrectly to snag some of the internet grammar police too!  Worked beautifully although it looks like that one grammar nazi deleted his post.  

Did I just deliberately spell deliberatly wrong?   Whatcha think!     Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

If we cannot laugh and make fun of ourselves in this sport then why are we suffering all this pain and anguish?  And regularly checking this forum for updates?

Have fun guys!  

Add new rules as you remember them. Both serious and silly!

Welcome and encourage new shooters to the sport.  

Shoot nuffin but tens and X's

And remember, lets be safe out there!

Regards, 
Crankster


Last edited by CrankyThunder on 10/21/2020, 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Misspellings added to verify authorship by engineer)
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Post by STEVE SAMELAK 10/21/2020, 8:19 am

We have met the enemy and he is us!
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Post by CrankyThunder 10/21/2020, 9:49 am

STEVE SAMELAK wrote:We have met the enemy and he is us!
good one!
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Post by STEVE SAMELAK 10/21/2020, 10:01 am

Credit goes to Pogo Possum/Walt Kelley
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Post by bruce martindale 10/22/2020, 2:29 pm

This is a good post, a mix of salt and pepper. A little ttle vinegar never hurt either! Smile

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Post by john bickar 10/22/2020, 7:23 pm

CrankyThunder wrote:And for what it is worth, I deliberatly spelled "loose" incorrectly to snag some of the internet grammar police too!  Worked beautifully although it looks like that one grammar nazi deleted his post.  

I prefer the term "grammar enthusiast", and I did not delete my post Laughing
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Post by CrankyThunder 10/22/2020, 7:42 pm

john bickar wrote:
CrankyThunder wrote:And for what it is worth, I deliberatly spelled "loose" incorrectly to snag some of the internet grammar police too!  Worked beautifully although it looks like that one grammar nazi deleted his post.  

I prefer the term "grammar enthusiast", and I did not delete my post Laughing


Awesome!  Now we got more irreverent stuff to have fun arguing about!  Smile
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Post by Jon Eulette 10/22/2020, 8:02 pm

Bickar woulda spelt it "RuleX"

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