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Post by SonOfAGun on 10/19/2020, 10:44 am

I’ve been researching the boxes that competitors use for BE. There seems to be a consistent, traditional format incorporating some common features. Most of those details I understand.

While most boxes have only one main lid, I have seen a couple examples of Gun-Ho boxes that have identical flip up lids on both the front and the back. What is the purpose or benefit of having lids that open both front and rear?

Also, I’ve seen one example of a vintage (old) Pflumm "Pistol Carryall" box on eBay with an entirely different configuration. There’s a drawer type arrangement with adjustable slots- I guess the slots are for pistols? Is this configuration used for some different shooting discipline, or just a configuration that didn't catch on?

Link to the completed auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Pflumm-Pistol-Range-Box-/254749685107
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Post by radjag on 10/19/2020, 10:59 am

I built my own custom box and chose to make the back as a hinged door which opens downwards. It provides convenient access to the gun tray and upper gallery from the back side - particularly useful when the box is on my bench in the garage and I just want to remove the gun or other item.

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Post by james r chapman on 10/19/2020, 11:18 am

If the drawer doesn’t slide, access from front and back makes it easier to get the guns out.

As a southpaw, I learned early on many reasons for not putting the box on the right.
1) at Perry, wind and rain always go left to right filling the box with water.
2) all semi auto pistols eject shells into your box.
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Post by James Hensler on 10/19/2020, 11:26 am

james r chapman wrote:If the drawer doesn’t slide, access from front and back makes it easier to get the guns out.

As a southpaw, I learned early on many reasons for not putting the box on the right.
1) at Perry, wind and rain always go left to right filling the box with water.
2) all semi auto pistols eject shells into your box.
So true! My old box and scope had thousands of little chips in the black coating of the scope from cases hitting it
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Post by Wobbley on 10/19/2020, 12:58 pm

Box configurations need a major redo, IMHO.  

Why must guns be transported upright held by clamps?

Why is the spotting scope mounted on the lid which has to be upright where it catches the wind and tips over?

Why is the box too short to sit on and too tall so it is awkward to move?  Why is the weight distribution so awkward?

Tradition is one thing but box design really needs to evolve, and soon.
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Post by radjag on 10/19/2020, 1:13 pm

Wobbley, your words are prophetic - I am currently working on another box design. Not new really cause I've seen plenty of non-conventional boxes on the line, but it will address many of the issues you mention.

One good feature of the conventional layout is that the box does deflect a lot of the brass from those insensitive shooters who don't bother to use a brass catcher. I'm working on a folding deflector to handle that problem.

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Post by LenV on 10/19/2020, 3:05 pm

The smaller flap door on the left side of Pachmayr boxes is/was used to store all the ammo for the match and other goodies like Rosen and magazines that you could access without opening the dangerous side of the case. All the ammo in the bottom also help stabilize the case.
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Post by SonOfAGun on 10/19/2020, 3:09 pm

LenV wrote:The smaller flap door on the left side of Pachmayr boxes...
 
Not the small door in the back. I'm talking about a second, full size lid. Same as the one on the front.
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Post by Greg Walloch on 10/19/2020, 5:44 pm

Well, seein’ as how I’ve made about 40 different styles of boxes, and a lot of folks think they have the, “Next best idea,” I’m interested to see how everyone addresses weight and configuration issues.

There isn’t a “great” box in my opinion, and I’ve made probably 2,000 of them.  They are all heavy, much more so when you load them with guns, ammo, and other niceties.  There is a limit on how much you can lighten a box when using wood.  Plastic won’t last, and aluminum weighs about the same and get get pretty bashed up.

The configuration is somewhat of a necessity.  With shooting benches being anywhere from 35-40 inches tall, you tend to need the extra height of the open door to look through your scope without bending over.  Yep, you have to suffer with the lid having to be locked down, but it IS a wind break.

Open lid/horizontal boxes aren’t the answer.  They collect water, gunpowder residue and dirt.

My personal box is about 6 1/2 pounds, but when I load it up, it’s right at 20 pounds, and it has NO ammo in it.

I look forward to new ideas.

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Post by Sa-tevp on 10/19/2020, 6:42 pm

I always thought rvrlvrlvr had a good idea with a Gun-Ho 4-gun box using gun-rugs instead of fingers. He has some awesome stickers too.

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t5109-how-do-you-use-your-pachmayr-type-gun-cases
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Post by Wes Lorenz on 10/19/2020, 9:56 pm

Greg Walloch wrote:
My personal box is about 6 1/2 pounds, but when I load it up, it’s right at 20 pounds, and it has NO ammo in it.

I look forward to new ideas.
6.5 lbs is really good. 
Here is my attempt with aluminum. It's 10lbs empty and holds 3 guns in Docksil cases. 
I gave a local sheetmetal shop a Strong Box to look at as they are interested in making boxes in their free time between Boeing work.
Time will tell if they make a few.
 Bullseye pistol box configurations Img_1510
Bullseye pistol box configurations Img_1511


I want one with skin like a C-47

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Post by "plq" on 11/1/2020, 6:46 pm

My guess is that earlier BE pistol boxes were adapted from mechanics or machinists toolboxes, specifically 'triangle' boxes / cases. They often share the same internal framing as well - i.e. take out a few drawers and it'll look a lot like the classic pistol box.  

Those boxes were designed w/ the assumption that they'd sit atop a cart much of the time, so their weight and portability wasn't such a priority. But some makers, like Kennedy, did create lighter scaled down 'hand carry' models that could be worth looking at for tips on how to design a strong but lighter box - Kennedy is still in business BTW and still makes a hand-carry machinists box, though I don't think they offer the same range of models that they used to.

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Post by Slartybartfast on 11/4/2020, 12:25 pm

Wobbley wrote:Tradition is one thing but box design really needs to evolve, and soon.
Prophetic words indeed. Spoken by others it would be decried as heresy.
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Post by james r chapman on 11/4/2020, 1:53 pm

I’ll just throw this out there.
3D printed Conversion magazine sleeves, dbl sided foam tape

Bullseye pistol box configurations 319f1c10
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Post by sbtzc on 11/4/2020, 8:40 pm

Slartybartfast wrote:
Wobbley wrote:Tradition is one thing but box design really needs to evolve, and soon.
Prophetic words indeed. Spoken by others it would be decried as heresy.
Burn me at the stake! I am a heretic! I shall not repent! 
            (Or do you have a better idea?  Smile )

My Strong Box weighs 14# empty, with stickers, pads, magnets, shoulder strap and scope mount. This is the large, 3-gun box.

>>>>>  BEYOUND HERE, BE HERESY  <<<<<

A gun box is a large, heavy, awkward, spotting scope holder. And, a too-short brass deflector. The majority of the internal space is of no use. However, everything one needs is very handy.

***** A foam pistol holder in a range bag is 2#. 12# difference!!!!
          Damn, I wish I could drop that off my beer belly.  Rolling Eyes

I purchased a NG scope from Sa-tevp that fits in one pocket of the bag nicely. All of the other stuff (and crap) from the gun box fits too, with room to spare. The bag has sleeves for magazines, oil and often used tools in one pocket. Other pockets hold less often needed but nice to have tools, a cleaning kit and otherstuff. Organization is easy. The problem is you have to remember what is where. Not everthing is as accessible in a bag as a box. 


Still there's the ammo box that holds my brass catcher and a need to build some sort of brass deflector.

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Post by zanemoseley on 11/4/2020, 8:55 pm

How are you supposed to develop a good hold if you don't have the strength for a 25-30# box.... I've decided physical conditioning is almost as important as pistol training to become really good.

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Post by bruce martindale on 11/5/2020, 9:14 am

I like the idea of drawers, one for each gun even. It's also a way to rescue the wonderful pachmayer boxes that don't have room for scoped guns

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Post by CR10X on 11/5/2020, 9:30 am

If it holds your guns, has a place for a scope, fits on a bench, can be secured (bungee, regular carry strap or CR Velcro special strap that fits on the box), keeps most of the rain out and can be carried without passing out; everything else is just extraneous and does nothing for improving your scores.  

Most people have too much stuff in the box anyway.  Take inventory and if you haven't used it in 6 months, put it in a separate bag to tote separately.  (And make it a small bag!)  For big matches like Perry I simply keep 2 boxes with the primary guns in one and the backup guns in another.  Simply switch out as needed (both .22's for 22 day, etc.) or if one needs to dry out, etc. 

Actually the current design with an adjustable scope holder on the lid that opens upright is pretty good. As for how to hold the guns, whatever works for you, but I keep a shelf in the safe that I can just put the gun tray on with the guns secured.  Just have to remember to put it in the box before heading to the range.  Embarassed

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Post by Slartybartfast on 11/5/2020, 9:56 am

bruce martindale wrote:I like the idea of drawers, one for each gun even. It's also a way to rescue the wonderful pachmayer boxes that don't have room for scoped guns
Speaking of which, saw this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pachmayr-Gun-Works-Wood-Case-4x-Pistol-Revolver-Range-Cleaning-Storage-Box/383769530503?hash=item595a725087:g:r4IAAOSw9Ctfl7w2
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Post by Slartybartfast on 11/5/2020, 10:08 am

CR10X wrote:Most people have too much stuff in the box anyway. 
That certainly seems the case.
Bullseyepistol.com gives the essentials as:

Bullseye pistol box configurations 1MzLz7iCFN4WQkxbNWfuXecR0yYBXBoICxzuB-caC3vbNqgiFgmtctLEU1P1Xx192nOxInPelZ8QAFsWMfuCRs9r

And I'm not convinced that other pistols couldn't be better transported and stored in another container.
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