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Need less recoil for center fire question

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Post by thessler on 11/9/2020, 7:37 am

Hi
I have been shooting in a indoor 50' rec league , it's pretty small time but I enjoy it. A few months ago my wife joined us and she is better than me right out of the gate , even though I have been working hard at this for three years now. 
Durring the fall we shoot 22, winter center fire , spring a 600 , 22 and center fire. Knowing the center fire is coming up I have been trying to get her to shoot my 45 to get used to it. Bottom line is she hates it. Hates the bang hates the recoil,  I'm pretty sure this will be the end of shooting for her unless I can come up with a softer gun.
I'm saying all this because I really think she could be good and hate to see her walk away .
So I'm wondering what  center fire I should look at that won't intimidate her .  I looked at the 32 target guns (pictures only) and it seems they all have magazine loading in front of the trigger.  In New York that makes it an assault weapon and  I'm not allowed near it.
Please offer any suggestions on what to look at, maybe 9mm or a 38 something.  I know very few Bullseye shooters and they all shoot 45.
Basically I can't just go try someone's gun , so I'm just going to have to buy something and hope for the best.
Any advice greatly appreciated. 
Thanks  Tom

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Post by chiz1180 on 11/9/2020, 8:17 am

What is your load for the 45? It could be possible to go softer. Smith 52, Hammerli p240, or a 1911 in 38 could be a possibility as well.

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Post by Dcforman on 11/9/2020, 8:24 am

Hey Tom! 

Good suggestions above.

If you need to go even lower, why not a revolver? No need to cycle loads. Good 38s are easy to find, 32's less so. Maybe a lower scoring potential, but a whole lot of fun!

Dave

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Post by james r chapman on 11/9/2020, 8:34 am

also lightly loaded .38 super comp in a 1911 would work well indoors.
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Post by mspingeld on 11/9/2020, 8:49 am

Jim, How's 38 super outdoors at 50? Accurate? Maybe with a hotter load? (Sorry to hijack)

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Post by Dr.Don on 11/9/2020, 9:15 am

S&W 52 -- I never had good results with mine at 50yds, but indoors at 50' it should sing.  You can load it down some too for that short a range, just not too much.  Triggers are typically quite nice without any work too.  IMO revolvers give you the most options in terms of loading down, but are going to be much harder to master for her.  9mm's are typically quite snappy even when loaded down.  A tailored bullseye 1911 in 38 Sp would work well too with better chance of 50yd accuracy IMO, but more $$ and less of a "take it out of the box and shoot it" gun.
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Post by jglenn21 on 11/9/2020, 9:43 am

38 super is plenty accurate at 50yds using lead bullets and is soft shooting. A 147gr. Bullet and 3.0 of WST works well.. the old Dardus 126gr lead SWC would hold under 2" all day but is no longer being commercially produced. Supers are easy to build too.
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Post by kc.crawford.7 on 11/9/2020, 10:05 am

mspingeld wrote:Jim, How's 38 super outdoors at 50? Accurate? Maybe with a hotter load? (Sorry to hijack)
Built a regular .38 Super back in the 90's that shot 1.25 x 1.25 at 50 with 150gr lead SWC.  3.0 gr of WW452 and a frame mount that recoiled like a 22.
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Post by -TT- on 11/9/2020, 10:46 am

Alternative suggestion might be a Springfield Armory compact 1911 in 9mm. It's a surprisingly good shooter, with a bull barrel that's really accurate. With off-the-shelf 147gr ammo, its recoil is likely much more to her liking. Put a target sight in the rear, or a shelf for reflex red dot, and good to go. Just an idea.

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Post by LenV on 11/9/2020, 11:20 am

Another vote for the Smith & Wesson model 52. Just buy it and shoot it. No trigger job needed. Load your own or store bought ammo all has mild recoil.
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Post by Jon Eulette on 11/9/2020, 12:18 pm

1911 with KKM 13 twist barrel. I’m running 2.7BE with 180 lswc. Extremely soft shooting. 3.4 BE with 180 lswc shoots on call at 50 yds.
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Post by Wobbley on 11/9/2020, 12:30 pm

Another vote for a 1911 in 38 Super.  2.7-3.0 of Bullseye with good 145-150 grain cast bullets should shoot like a 38 special.  But there is another alternative and that’s a CZ-75 in 9mm.  Load it down to 850 and a 147 and it should recoil like a 52.  They are very popular with the run and gun crowd and they are near bullseye accurate out of the box.
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Post by KBarth on 11/9/2020, 12:38 pm

Any 1911 built by Jon Eulette will be what you're looking for.  Very low recoil no matter the caliber. My 45 feels like im firing a 38 special through an N frame revolver
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Post by Texasref on 11/10/2020, 5:15 am

Springfield 1911 in 9mm. You choose which model.
Assuming you'll load your own ammo: Use a 147 gn. flat point coated bullet, over 3.2gns
of N320, Sport Pistol, or Titegroup.
This is what I shoot in my guns and what my wife shoots in hers.
Good accuracy and softer recoil.

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Post by thessler on 11/10/2020, 6:44 am

Thanks for the replys,  I'm doing alot of research on this .
What I'm coming up with is I can make a 38 super shoot softer Than a 9mm. 
Thanks , Tom

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Post by kc.crawford.7 on 11/10/2020, 10:05 am

Yes you can, and have it at .38 Special velocities.  Just need to keep the slide light to ensure function.
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Post by thessler on 11/10/2020, 11:07 am

Thanks,  I'm guessing that means a frame mounted dot.
Tom

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Post by Jon Eulette on 11/10/2020, 11:22 am

Can some people who are getting really good groups with 38 Super with lead bullets at low velocities chime in?
Couple friends been chasing their tails trying to get lead to group. Been trying lots of different bullets and powders without success thus far. Would really like to see 38 Super take off...…
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Post by Wobbley on 11/10/2020, 11:25 am

Not necessarily.  A small “micro” dot probably would function fine.  Something like a SigSauer Romeo 5.  If you wa t to go reflex, a Burris FastFire3 and that will function fine without upping loads or respringing.
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Post by zanemoseley on 11/10/2020, 11:39 am

I tested a mostly stock Sig 38 super at low velocities with several different lead bullets without luck, shotty accuracy even at 25yd from a RR. That was in my early years so could probably do better now but at the time I decided 38sp 1911's were the way to go, Jon is finishing a 38sp custom for me. Rebuilding the super to tighten and possibly change the barrel twist may help significantly.

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Post by aub1957 on 11/10/2020, 12:00 pm

I picked up a 38 super last week to mess around with as I am having trouble with .45 and 9mm recoil. I haven't shot a 38 Super since I was a kid. Shot it this past weekend and I thought the recoil was more manageable than a 9mm.

I have some work to do on the pistol and I have my work cut out for me on a good load. However, I am looking forward to exploring this caliber.

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Post by tovaert on 11/10/2020, 12:11 pm

I have to second the CZ 75 as a viable choice. I just built up a 75 SP-01 Tactical (decocker model) with the CGW pro-package trigger upgrade, a factory Pic rail (in place of the rear sight), and a red dot. CZ uses the 1:10 twist barrel, which is good for stabilizing the 147 JHP gr bullets out to 50 yards, at low MV's. It has a decent lock-up, and you can get a tighter front bushing (fitted) from CGW. Downside...they are heavy, and with the CGW parts, perhaps a too-expensive proposition? The SP-01 is all steel (40 oz), a handful. But 147 gr bullets at 850-900 fps are *really* soft shooting in a 40 oz pistol. Maybe a 75B SA would be a good choice...it's a little lighter.

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Post by CR10X on 11/10/2020, 12:21 pm

"Hates the bang" is also a big clue.  Most of the "recoil" reaction from shooters is from the noise as much as anything else.

If she is not using foam earplugs (good ones) AND ear muffs with gel pads (not the cheap plastic ear covers), then please give it a try.  

Also, female shooters tend to have lot more hair (more and thicker as well), so make sure the hair is pulled back so the ear muffs make as good a seal as possible. 

In addition, be sure the eye protection is not breaking the seal too much as well.  Sometimes you have to shop around to get eye protection that doesn't have gigantic / thick earpieces. It will be worth the money. 

I've taught and seen more than one shooter go from "I don't like it" to "Wow, this is much better" with just a little extra care with the eye and ear equipment and fitting.

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Post by Allgoodhits on 11/10/2020, 12:24 pm

Download the .45. Lighter  (less than 200 gr) lead, bullets and you may need to use a lighter recoil spring, depending on whether scoped, and whether scope is rail mounted or slide mounted. Powders yield different recoil pulse too. Try WST. It is good compromise. Clays works well too with lighter lead loads.

Like automobiles, getting the right balance of springs, changes the way the gun handles. A gun in recoil and recovery, and the car in the curves - suspension matters.
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Post by LenV on 11/10/2020, 12:55 pm

You asked to see some pictures of groups with a 38 Super. The JHP's work best but I got some decent groups out of the 147 gr. I ended up finding a load for the 115 L-SWC and the 130gr L-SWC that work good for sustained fire. The 147 LFP has the accuracy needed for slow fire.
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