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Question about sectional results

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bruce martindale
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Question about sectional results Empty Question about sectional results

Post by SonOfAGun 11/11/2020, 10:49 am

I was looking at 2019 Precision Pistol Indoor Sectional Results (link below) and noticed a couple things which I would like to understand.

First, how does one competitor end up with two results?

78. MA 810 -17 KLI***R, KENNETH - HASLETT, MI
79. MA 810 -13 KLI***R, KENNETH - HASLETT, MI

And then, why is there no x-count for those tied at 66? Do I take it to mean that two different people actually scored 826 points without any landing in the x ring? Seems unlikely.

65. MA 827 -14 GREEN****, THOMAS - PITTSFIELD, MA
66. MA 826       GIE***, KENNETH - FORT COLLINS, CO
      MA 826       LOCA***** STEPHEN - CONIFER, CO
68. MA 825 -12 TO***, ALAN - RICHMOND, VA

This is just idle curiosity- when the 2019 Sectional was held I had not yet shot my first match. I have no personal stake here.

https://competitions.nra.org/media/8277/2019-precision-pistol-indoor-national-championships-results-individual.pdf
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Post by chiz1180 11/11/2020, 10:59 am

The 2019 Sectional had some major administrative issues that caused the match to be protested. Long story short, competitors at some venues where given the opportunity to shoot twice, which would explain why one competitor has two results. 

Not sure how the tie for 66th was determined, however if tie breaking is explained in the rule book.
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Post by jwax 12/13/2020, 7:51 pm

Gee- can't wait to see the 2020 Sectional results.
Wait- it's only December.
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Post by john bickar 12/14/2020, 10:18 pm

jwax wrote:Gee- can't wait to see the 2020 Sectional results.
Wait- it's only December.

I'm still looking forward to receiving awards from the 2018 Sectionals...
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Post by Wobbley 12/14/2020, 10:27 pm

I think I saw you earlier...scanning the horizonQuestion about sectional results Aa031110
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Post by Danehogle 12/15/2020, 7:13 am

The fact that there are two scores with the same name shows the lack of willingness to adhere to the rules and the findings of the national protest committee’s ruling. I am also sure that those competitors who shot the 2019 sectionals more than once got their money back for each subsequent time they shot also.... Sad
I asked Shelly last week, when the 2020 results would be done.
She is the only one left at NRA. She stated that she was to get help from people from another department, and hopefully, the results would be ready by the first of the year. 
Shelly is doing the best she can by herself, but I am afraid that she has an insurmountable  mountain of paper to clime working by her self. 
Now with the collegiate shooting sports going to the scholastic a Shooting sports foundation as their sanctioning body, the NRA’s hold on competitions is dwindling to nothing. I guess when you say that you are “ customer based” and don’t give your customer the services promised, they have a real chance to go out of business. It’s sad that the NRA has not listened to the members/ competitors, but that’s what you get with bad leadership.
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Post by Schaumannk 12/15/2020, 8:38 am

Danehogle wrote:The fact that there are two scores with the same name shows the lack of willingness to adhere to the rules and the findings of the national protest committee’s ruling. I am also sure that those competitors who shot the 2019 sectionals more than once got their money back for each subsequent time they shot also.... Sad
I asked Shelly last week, when the 2020 results would be done.
She is the only one left at NRA. She stated that she was to get help from people from another department, and hopefully, the results would be ready by the first of the year. 
Shelly is doing the best she can by herself, but I am afraid that she has an insurmountable  mountain of paper to clime working by her self. 
Now with the collegiate shooting sports going to the scholastic a Shooting sports foundation as their sanctioning body, the NRA’s hold on competitions is dwindling to nothing. I guess when you say that you are “ customer based” and don’t give your customer the services promised, they have a real chance to go out of business. It’s sad that the NRA has not listened to the members/ competitors, but that’s what you get with bad leadership.
I wouldn’t assume this at all.  My guess would be, since it is the same score, that the data entry person at the NRA put the score in twice, or a computer scanner did.

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Post by james r chapman 12/15/2020, 8:44 am

Don’t bet on it. Many shot multiple times. Especially in Michigan!
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Post by bruce martindale 12/15/2020, 9:30 am

You could always compete multiple times but ony the first score counted towards the national results.



I couldn't even find these data,

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Post by james r chapman 12/15/2020, 10:47 am

bruce martindale wrote:You could always compete multiple times but ony the first score counted towards the national results.



I couldn't even find these data,

I’d like to think this was true, but, I don’t think the 2019 program made that clear.
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Post by Danehogle 12/15/2020, 6:05 pm

It has always been against the rules to shoot sectionals more than once. As to data entry, I highly doubt it as Beth was always removing people’s attempts to shot more than once. 
Don’t believe me... 
9.23 Aliases - No competitor may fire under an assumed name nor substitute for another in a match; or register, enter, or fire in the name of another.
20 ■ 2020NRAPRECISIONPISTOLRULEBOOK
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Post by Schaumannk 12/15/2020, 6:15 pm

Danehogle wrote:It has always been against the rules to shoot sectionals more than once. As to data entry, I highly doubt it as Beth was always removing people’s attempts to shot more than once. 
Don’t believe me... 
9.23 Aliases - No competitor may fire under an assumed name nor substitute for another in a match; or register, enter, or fire in the name of another.
20 ■ 2020NRAPRECISIONPISTOLRULEBOOK
You know, if you were going to cite a rule it would be helpful if you found the one that said you can’t shoot a sectional more than once rather than the one that prevents someone from earning a classification for another person.   Or sandbagging themselves into a lower class under an assumed name.

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Post by Danehogle 12/15/2020, 6:31 pm

Helpful if I posted it? 
It is every competitors responsibility to know the rules and to read the match bulletin. 
You know, if you are going to shoot matches, know the rules of the game before you play. 
But here you go... just in case you couldn’t find it.... 

ELIGIBILITY: A competitor (individual or team) may enter only one NRA Pistol Sectional during 2020. Competitors may enter other types of Sectionals if eligible. Tournament Officials (Rule 11) may not compete in the Sectional at which they are officiating.
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Post by Schaumannk 12/15/2020, 6:34 pm

Danehogle wrote:Helpful if I posted it? 
It is every competitors responsibility to know the rules and to read the match bulletin. 
You know, if you are going to shoot matches, know the rules of the game before you play. 
But here you go... just in case you couldn’t find it.... 

ELIGIBILITY: A competitor (individual or team) may enter only one NRA Pistol Sectional during 2020. Competitors may enter other types of Sectionals if eligible. Tournament Officials (Rule 11) may not compete in the Sectional at which they are officiating.
Ok.   That was for 2020.   What did the earlier rule books say?  Those are the ones you need to prove that it hasn’t been allowed before.

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Post by Danehogle 12/15/2020, 8:25 pm

It has ALWAYS been a “ one and done”  
That is why in 2019 when the NRA national pistol Director ( who was not a bullseye shooter ) arbitrarily tried to change sectionals to a re entry match, it was protested. The protest was Unanimously upheld and the Compatition department was forced to pay back anyone who shot more than once, delete all second and beyond scores. The protest is here and with a quick search you can read it.
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Post by Danehogle 12/15/2020, 8:29 pm

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Post by jmdavis 12/26/2020, 9:28 pm

john bickar wrote:
jwax wrote:Gee- can't wait to see the 2020 Sectional results.
Wait- it's only December.

I'm still looking forward to receiving awards from the 2018 Sectionals...

I was just wondering about that.
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Post by BHeintz 12/26/2020, 9:46 pm

jmdavis wrote:
john bickar wrote:
jwax wrote:Gee- can't wait to see the 2020 Sectional results.
Wait- it's only December.

I'm still looking forward to receiving awards from the 2018 Sectionals...

I was just wondering about that.
Doesn't look like they are giving out awards anymore. I was part of the 2nd place team match for 2019, and haven't received anything.

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Post by bruce martindale 12/27/2020, 11:26 am

So what's this cmp home match? Only 40 shots so it's not like a NRA Sectional . I couldn't find the rules in the book so assume it's 20 slow and then t&r like the P100?

Not many clubs holding it yet so I may try to hold one in NY

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Post by jwax 1/2/2021, 8:18 am

Bruce-
cmp home match
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Post by bruce martindale 1/2/2021, 8:57 am

Still don't see the rules or format thanks

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Post by chiz1180 1/2/2021, 9:22 am

See latest CMP Pistol Rule book, 5.2 table 4
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Post by whitez06 1/3/2021, 9:36 am

I/we shot the Abbotttstown, Pa sectional last year. Looking at the posted scores that was posted here, I saw none of the people who shot with me including my scores. So, I gotta wonder if this is correct

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Post by dfk178 1/4/2021, 10:16 am

whitez06 wrote:I/we shot the Abbotttstown, Pa sectional last year. Looking at the posted scores that was posted here, I saw none of the people who shot with me including my scores. So, I gotta wonder if this is correct
You have to contact the Match Director for 2020 Sectional at Abbottstown. You have until 8 January to challenge the results posted.
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