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Remington 1911" US Army"

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Post by ser2711 on Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:41 am

I bought a Remington 1911" US Army" made 1943 the gun is fine the barrel some rust on the rifling, how could affect really in accuracy?

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Post by Jack H on Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:20 am

There might be 77 years of wear in the gun that probably will be more significant.
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Post by spursnguns on Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:20 am

Jack H wrote:There might be 77 years of wear in the gun that probably will be more significant.

....Let alone the unhardened slide, loose tolerances, poor sights, etcetera.

Jim
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Post by spursnguns on Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:22 am

Hello ser2711,

Also, it is a Remington-Rand (famous for typewriters) and not a Remington Arms.

Jim
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Post by ser2711 on Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:53 am

Yes, you are right is a Remington-Rand but I have no choice for pre 1945 ordinance revolver or pistol competition here in Italy as original.

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Post by spursnguns on Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:14 am

ser2711 wrote:Yes, you are right is a Remington-Rand but I have no choice for pre 1945 ordinance revolver or pistol competition here in Italy as original.

You are correct, ser2711.

Your M1911, undoubtedly, was fired with corrosive primed ammunition.  So, a little rust may not be your only issue.  Soak the barrel in Kroil, clean it the best you can and see what you have.  As military M1911 barrels are truly drop-in, you may have to swap it our for a better example.

Jim
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Post by Slamfire on Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:04 pm

Clean barrel. Then shoot it. It is not a target pistol, and if you can hit a pie pan at 25 yards, that is fine with one of these service pistols.

A bud of mine said the pistol he had in the service, (1970's) was so worn out that it would not hit something the size of a chalk board. I assume the distance was 25 yards, but might have been, 25 feet.

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Post by BE Mike on Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:41 am

I think the poor triggers are the biggest factor of inaccuracy. In other words, the "shootability". The mechanical accuracy is probably good enough for their intended use. Many years ago, during training at Ft. Benning, I watched as Bill Blankenship picked a 1911a1 at random, out of a box of many, many pistols. He shook the pistol, so we all could hear it rattle. He then commenced to shoot an axe blade at about 7 yards and split a bullet, causing a balloon on each side of the axe blade to burst.
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Post by ser2711 on Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:43 am

I set the trigger weight at 3 lbs and now is fine, I read that the slide is unhardered could be a problem? I have the same but fitted with a Bar-Sto barrel who at 25mt stay in less than 2 inches.. unfortunately not admitted in this kind of competition as the barrel must original and not S/S match

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Post by Slamfire on Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:41 pm

ser2711 wrote:I set the trigger weight at 3 lbs and now is fine, I read that the slide is unhardered could be a problem? I have the same but fitted with a Bar-Sto barrel who at 25mt stay in less than 2 inches.. unfortunately not admitted in this kind of competition as the barrel must original and not S/S match


What kind of a problem are you worried about.

From a WW2 article on making the 1911, the first two inches of the slide from the muzzle were heat treated.  I don't understand that, as the locking load path is between the lugs and the breech face. I would have thought they would have wanted to heat treat that area, but evidentially not.  I also did not find anything about carburizing the surface of the receiver or slide.

If I said case hardening people would all be over me because to the shooting community case hardening is pretty decorative colors.

Remington 1911" US Army" Jje3nbK

Well those colors are pretty, and they were there because the period process to add carbon to the surface, used bone, leather, and charcoal, which left pretty colors.  At the time, the purpose of the process was not to make pretty colors, but to add carbon to the surface of a plain carbon steel and make it harder and more wear resistance.  Today, even with alloy steels that don't need a carburized surface, firearm makers leave pretty colors because the customer expects it.  That USFA has a 4140 frame, the colors add nothing structurally or in wear resistance. But the customer (me) wanted a pretty pistol.  I discussed this with a single shot action maker. He uses 8620, not 4140 as I suggested, because he could have a pretty case pattern put on the 8620, which is what his customers want. Not that 8620 needed a surface hardness increase for what he was doing, but it looked "period".  Salt baths and gas carbonation were being used mid 20th century for parts that did not need to be pretty, but did need added wear hardness.


Anyway, I would have thought the slide and frame rails would have been carburized to make them wear resistant. If the article is correct, and only the first two inches of the slide were hardened, that means the area between the lug cuts and breech face are in the annealed state. It would work if toughness is the number one desired characteristic. Sure would not add any strength if a double charged cartridge got in the breech.

Further going down this path, the steels used in the WW2 1911's are plain carbon steels for the slide and receiver. As you can see, the receiver is 1035, which is incredibly cheap low grade steel. The slide is not that much better being 1050.


This froe is probably 1055. It is easy to sharpen and it does not have to hold an edge for long. The two most important characteristics are  that 1055 is extremely cheap, and that his froe can be hit with a block of wood, to make shakes, and not shatter. Bending is OK as this steel is ductile enough to be straightened.

Remington 1911" US Army" 6EReRSA

Go to MatWeb and compare the yield strength of these steels, annealed, to something like 4140. If you can find it, compare the Charpy impact too. These steels are just adequate for the application, about the cheapest materials that would just hold together for a 6000 round endurance test. There was no expectation of a 100 year, one million round, lifetime.



Remington 1911" US Army" 46leF1W


In fact, I am going to offer that you should only minimally fire your collector piece. They ain't making them any more for one thing. You can buy a perfectly good commercial 1911, for about half what a all matching WW2 1911 costs, and they are made of far superior steels, which should be far cleaner, and ought to last darn near forever at 45 ACP pressures.

Remington 1911" US Army" GtPckYj

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Post by Wobbley on Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:29 pm

Slam, The OP lives in Italy and guns and parts are likely difficult to get.  And with international laws being what they are, getting a barrel could be difficult.  So, that said, he has a nice relic from WW2, and I see no reason not to shoot it.  If the OP reloads, I’d suggest a 200 gr RNFP at 750fps just to keep the wear and tear down.
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Post by James Hensler on Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:01 am

Why not peen the rails and tighten it up? Fit a bushing and install an oversized pin. Isn’t this all legal?
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Post by ser2711 on Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:05 am

What is it an  oversized pin?

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Post by Slamfire on Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:23 am

Wobbley wrote:Slam, The OP lives in Italy and guns and parts are likely difficult to get.  And with international laws being what they are, getting a barrel could be difficult.  So, that said, he has a nice relic from WW2, and I see no reason not to shoot it.  If the OP reloads, I’d suggest a 200 gr RNFP at 750fps just to keep the wear and tear down.

Thanks, I missed the Italy part. Somehow I thought he was going to be using in the US.

I totally agree with nice and light loads. There is no reason to stress a vintage pistol, there is  nothing to be gained, and a lot more that can be lost.

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Post by James Hensler on Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:33 am

ser2711 wrote:What is it an  oversized pin?
Sorry 
Slide stop pin an oversized one will put more force on the barrel lockup
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Post by ser2711 on Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:27 am

I found my best load at 25 mt. with 3,2 gr.N310 and 200 gr Penn bullet SWC with 10 lb recoil spring

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Post by James Hensler on Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:35 am

I use 3.4 so every pistol is different so it sounds like you found one that is working! Good job
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