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How do u practice?

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Post by Dehumanizer Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:27 pm

I have a Beeman P17 with a red dot that is very accurate @ 11 yards. I shoot 15 rounds at lunch time every day if work doesn't have me working through. Also have a 5lb weight I hold at arms length for 60-90 seconds 5 times a day. Have a 2lb airsoft with laser pointer that I try to keep steady inside of a 1 inch black dot on the wall...

How do you practice? Give me some ideas.

Thanks.

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Post by robert84010 Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:28 pm


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Post by -TT- Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:43 pm

5lb is high for exercising. Your gun is less, don't try to crush it. Also your raises when shooting are all <20 seconds, most of them much less. More reps with 2lb will take you farther.

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Post by Dehumanizer Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:47 am

-TT- wrote:5lb is high for exercising. Your gun is less, don't try to crush it. Also your raises when shooting are all <20 seconds, most of them much less. More reps with 2lb will take you farther.
I was using a 2.5 for a few weeks but still had the jitters. When I went to the 5 I saw marked improvement in a couple of weeks. Or it could have been that and all the other things I do. Smile

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Post by -TT- Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:57 am

Ok! Maybe try mixing the long heavy ones with more precise movements using the lights. While holding the 2.5, try writing your name on a wall or following a small staircase pattern. Your goal is fine motor skill combined with stability for your longest hold.

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Post by Dehumanizer Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:06 am

-TT- wrote:Ok! Maybe try mixing the long heavy ones with more precise movements using the lights. While holding the 2.5, try writing your name on a wall or following a small staircase pattern. Your goal is fine motor skill combined with stability for your longest hold.
I will give that a try. Thanks!

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Post by CR10X Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:42 am

I see you are relatively new.  

Go to Fundamentals topic and check out the sticky(s) and do some searches on the topic of your choice.  And check out the Bullseye Education Library.

The "search" function is a little hard to use, but it is your friend.

CR

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Post by Dehumanizer Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:02 pm

-TT- wrote:Ok! Maybe try mixing the long heavy ones with more precise movements using the lights. While holding the 2.5, try writing your name on a wall or following a small staircase pattern. Your goal is fine motor skill combined with stability for your longest hold.
I got to say that the stair thing is actually fun. I know I must not have much excitement in my life but doing this during breaks is actually relaxing. Hopefully it will reflect in my scores.

Thanks again for the idea.

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Post by Dehumanizer Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:07 pm

CR10X wrote:I see you are relatively new.  

Go to Fundamentals topic and check out the sticky(s) and do some searches on the topic of your choice.  And check out the Bullseye Education Library.

The "search" function is a little hard to use, but it is your friend.

CR
That I am. I have been reading up on the library and I have found some good info in there. Just wanted to find out what others did when they are not at the range to practice.

Fresh meat, in a old forum, asking noobie questions stirs up some interesting convos.

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Post by CR10X Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:43 pm

OK, just an old dude saving some typing time and hoping to help point you in a fruitful direction.  

Personal opinion follows, strongly held.  

Words, even our own, have more power than we realize.  Yes, I know it may be semantics to some, but the mind creates its own mental images and feelings associated with the words we use, even to ourselves.  And the word "training" generally creates an entirely different mental image than "practicing".  It's also easier to set training "goals" than practicing "goals" since you can be much more specific with each training session. (And to help create the "success or needs work" evaluation of how you did for each session). 

Not much need to practice, even at the range.

Learn how to train on specific parts of the process or yourself and you can do different types of training at home, at the range, at the desk during lunch, on the drive home, etc., etc.

Train hard, and shoot easy at the match.  You can't fix anything at a match or "practicing". (But you may learn something that helps or even what not to do.  Goes in the notes too.)

You can fix anything if you find the correct training specific to your issue(s).

The mind is the toughest part of the shooting equation.  So like the gun, work on keeping it pointed in the best direction for improvement.  So the first thing to "practice" (for me), is learning how train the mind and the process. 

May your groups grow ever smaller.  (Then you just have to use the screws to get the group in the middle.)

CR

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Post by Dehumanizer Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:07 pm

Great points. Yes train and practice are significantly different terms. I used the wrong one.

It is great to have a resource like this to gather the knowledge from some that know the dos and donts when starting out.

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Post by CR10X Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:45 pm

Please don't worry about it.  There's not really any issue with the terms specifically, just the mental approach to learn how to develop a consistent shot process.  It's just I use "training" to help create a better mental image of what I am trying to do to focus my thoughts to help create the best process for me.  And it worked pretty well when I went to that mindset. Just like finally having the breakthrough of actually "seeing" the front sight all the way though the shot and into recoil. 

I'll say it a different way just for fun.  

We can have perfect practice, but if we just "practice" we will not learn anything new.  So are we so sure we're doing it the best way that we want to ingrain that through repetition?  Are we sure we don't need to train to get better on some specific part of the process or even find a completely different way?  The word "training" also frees us from the goal using repetition for betterment to one of finding the best way for the individual parts, like each part of the shot process, or improving the body, or learning how to see the wobble like a movie or seeing enough to call the shot consistently.  

I haven't shot a 900 yet so I'm still training.  First to find the best way for me to perform the individual parts of the shot process.  Then training so that I can replicate them more consistently.  And then occasionally seeing if some change can make it even better.  (Zins found that contrary to popular believe at that time, focusing on the target rather than the dot worked better for him.  That's training and trying something different, not practicing the same thing to get better.)

In other words, "practicing" may even limit our ability to improve beyond our current level since we may subconsciously accept that as our level of performance.  

CR

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Post by Dehumanizer Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:15 pm

But if we are just starting out how can we have a preconceived idea of what our limits are. I am happy with my 750/900 a couple of weeks ago but I know I have a long way to go. Best I can do is "train" when I can and hope that what I am doing translates to a steady aim on Saturday.

I am like the runner that just starts out and thinks he can train for a marathon in two weeks. I love the fact that I don't put pressure on myself to do well because I am in the early stages now. Even if I do something stupid like not pressing the slide lock on a rapid fire string I find it amusing. Now talk to me in 6 months and I will tell you it blew my whole match Smile

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Post by Sa-tevp Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:43 pm

What CR said about searching the website. 

I'd also like to share a post from the Fundamentals forum as it distills training goals:

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t714p25-bullseye-tip-of-the-day#101071

If I am shooting 10 meter air pistol at home the 9/10 ring of the B-40 Air Pistol target is similar to the 25 yard B-8C ten ring, and the 7/8 ring is close enough to the 9 ring. You may find this information useful.

I forgot to add, you can shoot a clean Time Fire target, you just haven't realized it yet. When you do it it will probably feel easy.
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Post by dapduh2 Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:19 pm

I think you described training. I would focus your energy on using the guns you’ll compete with while doing those activities. 
Dry firing isn’t sexy but it is the most important thing you can do to improve. But don’t just dry fire to dry fire. Focus on the front sight and what happens when the hammer falls/ focus on the dot on a blank wall and what happens to the dot when the hammer falls. 
When you train with ammo, I like to focus on something. For example, I’ll shoot and focus just on my trigger reset during recovery.
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Post by -TT- Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:01 pm

Dehumanizer wrote:
-TT- wrote:Ok! Maybe try mixing the long heavy ones with more precise movements using the lights. While holding the 2.5, try writing your name on a wall or following a small staircase pattern. Your goal is fine motor skill combined with stability for your longest hold.
I got to say that the stair thing is actually fun. I know I must not have much excitement in my life but doing this during breaks is actually relaxing. Hopefully it will reflect in my scores.

Thanks again for the idea.

Here's a take on the fine motor exercise, from Alex at Pardini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X97JfXBGh-k

At one point, he suggests using the wrist to change the aiming point, I'm not sure I agree with that. But he has many more international medals than me! Smile

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Post by Allgoodhits Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:55 pm

There is a wealth of knowledge and experience available. However, one must first read it and study it. Sometimes read it again, and again, but continue to study it. Rob Leatham puts it simply best: "Shooting is simple, it just isn't easy".  Point gun at desired aiming area of target, then permit it to fire without disturbing it. That is it.

I would get Lanny Basham's book, With Winning in Mind. I think he offers valuable insight into the shooting sports, or any athletic endeavor from the mental aspect of the sport as well as how to deal with competitions. He also does a good job at explaining behavior and objectives in helping one attain their goals and staying track. There are many good systems, find one which works for you, and follow it.

Going back to this statement, point gun at desired aiming area of target, then permit it to fire without disturbing it. You don't need good sights, or a good scope or good eyes to point and aim. But having good eyes, good sights or a good scope, make pointing and aiming much easier to identify what you want to hit, and to make the sighting easier and more repeatable. You don't need a good grip, or grips either, however having a proper fitting grips and grip that fit you to press that trigger straight to rear the same every time sure does make it easier and more repeatable. Carry the same cognitive process through stance, breathing, position and so on. Remember, shooting is simple, you just need to learn, improvise and develop that which works for you, to make the difficult task easier, more repeatable and on demand.

The above builds on your "shot process". IMO, so much is said of that without many getting the full jest of what it means. To me, it is like writing a program with minute detail in order to get a robot to perform a given task. Every detail. Nothing can be taken for granted, nothing left out, nothing. Writing such a program could take days, weeks, months or even years. But once the program is written, and you know it works, every time, then all one has to do is identify the task, search mentally for the program which enables you to perform that task, get ready, then "run program". If the program is a good one, and if you follow it, then you will get the outcome that the program was written to achieve. This approach helps me. Maybe it will work for you. 

When something goes wrong, it is usually, because I tried to consciously "rewrite" a mental program, that I had I simply let my proven subconscious program run it, the result likely would have been better. Many refer to this as stinking thinking. The thinking should have gone into writing the program, now it is time to just run it.

Get you mind wrapped around that which you really want to do, and the rest will be less difficult. To say that you want to be a better shooter is not defined enough. Set a specific goal, then write measurable performance objectives that will help you get closer to your specific goal. Once you reach it, set another and another. If you are not reaching it, maybe you need to either re-write your program, or reduce the goal. A 16 ft ladder will not get you to the 11 feet high roof, if the first rung is 10 feet off the ground.

Go 4 it!
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