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Vortex Razor vs Burris Fastfire 3 mount

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Post by Hammbone Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:25 pm

I've recently started shooting Bullseye matches (I have 2 under my belt).  I have a Burris Fastfire3 on a SW 22 Victory and it works great for me.  I'm currently shooting iron sights on my Springfield Range Officer for CF & 45.  I really think my scores could improve if I had a red dot.  Unfortunately, an Aimpoint or Ultra Dot (and required gunsmithing to mount it) isn't in my budget right now.

I'm considering another Burris Fastfire 3.  Can anyone tell me if it mounts the same as a Vortex Razor?  I found this sight mount for a LPA cut but description says it's for a Vortex Razor.

Hammbone

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Post by Hammbone Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:34 pm

I found the answer to my own question. Looks like the answer is "NO", the Vortex Razor and Burris Fastfire 3 do NOT have the same mounting pattern.  The Burris Fastfire 3 matches the Vortex Venom & Viper (all Docter/Noblex standard), but the Razor is different (C-more standard).

link: https://optics-info.com/footprints-on-red-dot-sights/

Hammbone

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Post by rich.tullo Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:20 am

I would go with a Primary Arms advanced dot Optics planet has them for sale at $129. Plus the $5 off coupon code worked for me and I got free ship. 

I bought one and a Romeo 5 which is similar. Both are Aimpoint micro dot h1 clones. I had good luck with them and I believe you can get a cheap picatinny rail for the victory.
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Post by Hammbone Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:13 am

rich.tullo wrote:I would go with a Primary Arms advanced dot Optics planet has them for sale at $129. Plus the $5 off coupon code worked for me and I got free ship. 

I bought one and a Romeo 5 which is similar. Both are Aimpoint micro dot h1 clones. I had good luck with them and I believe you can get a cheap picatinny rail for the victory.
Thanks for the tip, but it looks like they're discontinued. 

I already have an aluminum Volquatsen picatinny and a Burris FF3 on the Victory.
Currently, I'm looking at a red dot for my SA RO 1911 (currently has an LPA rear sight).

Hammbone

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Post by rich.tullo Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:20 am

$129 great warranty it don't matter. Micro Dot better for Bullseye especially at 50 yards. The only one that might work is the Trijicon SRO but its $500+. 

Look at what the guys that shoot +850 shoot few shoot a panel. 

I am going to try a Venom on my Walther PPQ which is a plinker / Service pistol project because I think I can swap out sight on that gun fast and EGW makes a base for the Venom but it is not a serious bullseye gun.
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Post by PhotoEscape Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:00 am

At one of the matches last year I was scoring a master level shooter.  He shot guns with reflex sights, Vortex if I remember correctly.  863/837/848 for 2548-78 aggregate.  And one more detail, - range is positioned west to east, so we were shooting against light.  It was an overcast day though, so no sun shining into the dots.

AP
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Post by Hammbone Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:58 pm

How many guys shoot 850+ with iron sights? Anybody?

Thus far, my only experience is at indoor 1800 matches at 50ft.  But the bullseye MOA is supposed to be the same regardless of distance right?  (I'm sure outdoors at 50 & 25 yrds is a totally different animal, I just haven't done it yet).

Trying to be budget minded, which is why I'm looking at reflex options right now.

However, it's also been suggested to me to keep shooting iron sights until I get to Expert, then start using a dot.  Thoughts?

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Post by radjag Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:45 pm

Hammbone,

In my limited experience, it all comes down to your eye.

I owned many Vortex Venom reflex sights, they are a really neat, high quality package and I never had a failure even on high energy 38 Super and 45ACP guns. Excellent.

Then I discovered Bullseye and I started to get serious. I found that in certain lighting conditions the dot in the Venoms started to "star burst" or flare. For general plinking or even IPSC type shooting it probably would have been OK, but for Precision Pistol, with my eye, no, not good enough.

Happened that I already had a couple of more typical Bullseye guns with Ultradot tube style sights - I then realised that I did not suffer as much dot distortion with those tube style sights. I fitted rails and UD's to all of my guns and gradually began to understand what works with my eye and, not just the sights, but the whole package. It took a while and not a small amount of money!

I sold all of my Vortex Venom sights and most of the mounts - many of them went to other Bullseye shooters who are very happy with them.

I have had LASIK surgery and, for my age, my right master eye long distance vision is still pretty good - I am the only one in my golf gang who can actually see the flight of the ball out to 200+ yards! But, I guess that I have a certain amount of Astigmatism in the master eye and that is what most likely causes the "sunburst" effect with the Reflex sights. There are several threads on this and related subjects on this forum.

So, the choice of a typical Reflex type versus a Tube type is very much dependent on the precise characteristics of your master eye. IMHO. You need to try guns with both types under a variety of light conditions before you can make a definite choice.

Sorry!

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Post by Hammbone Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:08 pm

radjag wrote:Hammbone,

In my limited experience, it all comes down to your eye.

I owned many Vortex Venom reflex sights, they are a really neat, high quality package and I never had a failure even on high energy 38 Super and 45ACP guns. Excellent.

Then I discovered Bullseye and I started to get serious. I found that in certain lighting conditions the dot in the Venoms started to "star burst" or flare. For general plinking or even IPSC type shooting it probably would have been OK, but for Precision Pistol, with my eye, no, not good enough.

Happened that I already had a couple of more typical Bullseye guns with Ultradot tube style sights - I then realised that I did not suffer as much dot distortion with those tube style sights. I fitted rails and UD's to all of my guns and gradually began to understand what works with my eye and, not just the sights, but the whole package. It took a while and not a small amount of money!

I sold all of my Vortex Venom sights and most of the mounts - many of them went to other Bullseye shooters who are very happy with them.

I have had LASIK surgery and, for my age, my right master eye long distance vision is still pretty good - I am the only one in my golf gang who can actually see the flight of the ball out to 200+ yards! But, I guess that I have a certain amount of Astigmatism in the master eye and that is what most likely causes the "sunburst" effect with the Reflex sights. There are several threads on this and related subjects on this forum.

So, the choice of a typical Reflex type versus a Tube type is very much dependent on the precise characteristics of your master eye. IMHO. You need to try guns with both types under a variety of light conditions before you can make a definite choice.

Sorry!
Thanks for the input. I think there's hope that it "could" work for me.
I'm using the Burris on my 22 and though I agree that it's not "perfect" (i.e., I see a hint of star-burst, but I run it at the lowest setting to prevent that), I'm getting to the point that I can shoot 95-97% with it.

I am near sighted and have worn classes since 4th grade (I will be the big 4-0 this year! YIKES).  My vision has fluctuated a little, but not much. It seems like each time I go to the eye doctor, the astigmatism prognosis changes. Sometimes they'll say I have a slight one, sometimes they say none. I'm sure that'll change as I age.  Right now I have a -4.25 in both eyes.  I've always been able to see super crisp up close. That skill seems to be waning in the last couple of years.

Nonetheless, knowing what I know from my Burris on my 22, I think a reflex would be a significant improvement over the iron sights.  I don't disagree that a tube would be better, but man, it's quite an "investment"!

Hammbone

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Post by -TT- Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:09 pm

Hammbone wrote:I found the answer to my own question. Looks like the answer is "NO", the Vortex Razor and Burris Fastfire 3 do NOT have the same mounting pattern.  The Burris Fastfire 3 matches the Vortex Venom & Viper (all Docter/Noblex standard), but the Razor is different (C-more standard).

link: https://optics-info.com/footprints-on-red-dot-sights/

This is true, but you can get an inexpensive adapter, which is a plastic shim with holes on the bottom that line up with the base and have larger bumps on top that line up with the sight.

They're made by Arredondo, here's one source: https://www.arredondoaccessories.com/product/doctersight-j-point-mount/

-TT-

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