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scope sighting conundrum

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tovaert
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Post by mustachio 2/24/2021, 7:39 pm

I have a Ruger 10/22 with a Magpul stock, BX trigger group (1.7# break), Simmons 3x9x50 scope (inexpensive but good enough), and an ER Shaw .920" target barrel. 

When I sight in at my local range it is adjusted dead on. I can take the less than 1/8" bullseye center out with regularity.  When I go to my club range where we shoot fun 22LR matches I am shooting about 1" left. I have done nothing to the gun, not even cleaned it. Why am I shooting left at one range and dead on at another range. Can the lighting be that influential between the two ranges?  We only shoot at 25 yards. 

This is the gun with a standard Ruger barrel. I have not taken a pic with the Shaw barrel, yet. 
https://imgur.com/2AAQOU0

What do you think is the issue?
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Post by LenV 2/24/2021, 8:44 pm

Loose mount. That's my .02. I will add. Turn it down to 3 power and don't change power between ranges.
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Post by tovaert 2/25/2021, 6:37 am

Are you shooting the exact same position (e.g., prone) at both ranges?

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Post by Dr.Don 2/25/2021, 9:17 am

If it's not loose, the "good enough" Simmons might not be good enough.  Test it with a different scope.
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Post by mustachio 2/25/2021, 9:57 am

LenV wrote:Loose mount. That's my .02. I will add. Turn it down to 3 power and don't change power between ranges.
I checked the mount and it is solid-no movement at all.  
I did the shooting from the same position, prone with my bipod. 
The action is torqued to the same in/lbs all of the time.
I have used this scope for a long time and it has been fine up until now...maybe time for a new one.
I shot both ranges at 5x, moved it one time to 7x during the match and still one inch left.
Thanks for all the insight, I will work on sighting at the range where I shoot the match and see if it does it again.
mustachio    ;}
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Post by CrankyThunder 2/25/2021, 10:29 am

Hey Mustachio:

Does that Shaw barrel have the silencer on it?  If it does, there could be some buildup on the silencer that is causing that.  

If no silencer, take a good look at the crown of the barrel.  

Same ammo at both ranges?

Has something gotten between the forestock and the barrel?

Were you shooting in one of them hurricanes you got every couple weeks down there? (just kidding on the hurricane part but think about any wind you were experiencing).  

Temperature about the same?  Temperature of the barrel about the same? temperature of the ammo about the same?

Double check the torque of the mounting screws in the stock and also double check the torque of the mounting screws for barrel to receiver.  

Somebody mentioned loose mount or loose ring already but double check it.  

Shake the scope/gun and listen for any loose parts that would indicate a busted scope.  

I had a couple of simmons scopes and was not satisfied with the optics and they did loose their ability to hold zero.  I can tell you that the simmons lifetime warranty is not worth the paper it is printed on.  Cannot remember the cheezy excuse they used to not honor their warranty because it was a while ago but I did not invest that much in them to begin with.  Had to pay for shipping to their repair center and then did not bother to pay for shipping a busted scope back to me.  They offered to repair it but I woulda had more money in the repaired and shipped scope then it was worth at original purchase.  

All in all it appears that you are going to be shopping for a scope here soon.  I just got a Althlon spotting scope and am genuinly impressed with the optics of their cronos line. For more suggestions head on over to rimfire central, you will get gobs of good advice for rescoping your 10/22.  

Regards, 
Crankster
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Post by Merick 2/25/2021, 10:59 am

My assessment is you robably have some parallax problem going on.  Set the gun down on sandbags or something solid and move your head around without moving the gun and see how much the cross-hairs move on target.  You may be surprised.

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Post by mustachio 2/25/2021, 11:04 am

CrankyThunder wrote:Hey Mustachio:

Does that Shaw barrel have the silencer on it?  If it does, there could be some buildup on the silencer that is causing that.  

If no silencer, take a good look at the crown of the barrel.  

Same ammo at both ranges?

Has something gotten between the forestock and the barrel?

Were you shooting in one of them hurricanes you got every couple weeks down there? (just kidding on the hurricane part but think about any wind you were experiencing).  

Temperature about the same?  Temperature of the barrel about the same? temperature of the ammo about the same?

Double check the torque of the mounting screws in the stock and also double check the torque of the mounting screws for barrel to receiver.  

Somebody mentioned loose mount or loose ring already but double check it.  

Shake the scope/gun and listen for any loose parts that would indicate a busted scope.  

I had a couple of simmons scopes and was not satisfied with the optics and they did loose their ability to hold zero.  I can tell you that the simmons lifetime warranty is not worth the paper it is printed on.  Cannot remember the cheezy excuse they used to not honor their warranty because it was a while ago but I did not invest that much in them to begin with.  Had to pay for shipping to their repair center and then did not bother to pay for shipping a busted scope back to me.  They offered to repair it but I woulda had more money in the repaired and shipped scope then it was worth at original purchase.  

All in all it appears that you are going to be shopping for a scope here soon.  I just got a Althlon spotting scope and am genuinly impressed with the optics of their cronos line. For more suggestions head on over to rimfire central, you will get gobs of good advice for rescoping your 10/22.  

Regards, 
Crankster
That barrel is the OEM Ruger with a suppressor. the Shaw is .920 and not threaded for a suppressor. The muzzle is nicely crowned and I get the "starburst" smoke design at the muzzle end. 
Same ammo at both ranges, CCI Mini-mags. Approximately same temp at both ranges.
I have a rubber bumper (piece of bike tube) between the barrel and stock that I have experimented with positioning and it beds the barrel and I get the most accuracy from that spot.
No Hurricanes, yet. The barrel and ammo were approximately the same temp.  I always fire 10 to 15 rounds before the match to warm up the barrel. 
Mounting screws are set fine and the action is torqued the same each time I clean the gun.
I have not shaken the gun yet, but will do so today.
Looking on line for a new scope but don't want to go broke for a 10/22.
Mustachio  ;}

PS: that suppressor gets cleaned every time I use it so no chance of build up.
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Post by LenV 2/25/2021, 11:27 am

Merick mentioned parralax and that is what I was worried about when I mentioned keeping it on 3 power. Those scopes are not designed to be Parralax  free until you are shooting over 50yds.
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Post by LenV 2/25/2021, 11:37 am

I have the Simmons Whitetail Classic 6.5x20 on my Savage SST(bunch of letters) with the adjustable objective. The adjustable objective keeps it parralax free at 25 yds.
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Post by tovaert 2/26/2021, 7:44 am

I also second the parallax issue, unless your scope's windage knob sticks or for some reason does not adjust properly. Most likely the scope is set for a 100 yard parallax, since it is not a rimfire-specific scope. Shooting it at 25 yards can cause large parallax errors, especially if your eye is inside of the optimal eye relief point (where the image is the brightest). I shoot rimfire sporter (50 then 25 yards) and finally bought rimfire scopes because of this problem. To see if this is the issue, I'd suggest an experiment where you intentionally move you eye well back of the optimal eye relief point, to the point where you see a black vignette (ring) form around the edge of the image. Keep the vignette uniform and donut-shaped and then shoot the rifle (at both ranges). Moving your head behind the optimal eye relief point and maintaining the vignette centered, does not cause parallax issues. 

While expensive, the Leupold 3-9 x 33 EFR ($400) is great and focuses down to 10 yards. I have one and a (discontinued) Weaver rimfire scope ($250) that also focuses down to 10 yards. If you can find a used Weaver, that is a nice scope but the glass is not quite as good as the Leupold's. Another (cheapest) option is to take a dial caliper and measure the OD os the scope at the objective end. Convert it to mm (multiple by 25.4) and then go on Amazon and search "Kaiser lens cap" and look for one that will fit on the objective end of your Simmons. Make a template out of paper, put it on the inside of the cap, and then punch a 1/4" diameter hole through the center of the cap (see photo). Secure it on the end with some electrical tape. This will reduce input light somewhat, but it also reduces parallax error. It will help, but not as good as a rimfire scope.
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Post by CrankyThunder 2/26/2021, 8:35 am

A good way to check parallax is to set the rifle on the bench in bags pointing at the target.  without touching the rifle, look through the scope and note where the zero is.  Then move your head around while still looking through the scope and note if the zero is changing without moving or touching the rifle at all.  

You can get precision with this method using graph paper and a buddy with a pen at the target (make sure rifle is unloaded) but a quick peak while rifle is in the bags will reveal how much parallax you are dealing with.  

Regards, 
Crankster
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Post by jjfitch 2/26/2021, 10:44 am

mustachio wrote:I have a Ruger 10/22 with a Magpul stock, BX trigger group (1.7# break), Simmons 3x9x50 scope (inexpensive but good enough), and an ER Shaw .920" target barrel. 

When I sight in at my local range it is adjusted dead on. I can take the less than 1/8" bullseye center out with regularity.  When I go to my club range where we shoot fun 22LR matches I am shooting about 1" left. I have done nothing to the gun, not even cleaned it. Why am I shooting left at one range and dead on at another range. Can the lighting be that influential between the two ranges?  We only shoot at 25 yards. 

This is the gun with a standard Ruger barrel. I have not taken a pic with the Shaw barrel, yet. 
https://imgur.com/2AAQOU0

What do you think is the issue?

If prone, there is no mention of a sling being used!

Are you shooting "off hand" or from a bench? How a barrel is "rested" can affect POI!

If standing are your feet positioned exactly the same at both ranges? A slight change in position can affect POI, but you already knew that!

Light can affect POA/POI with open/patridge sights, don't know about optical sights!

Otherwise it's the way you hold your tongue or the different hemispheres in relation to magnetic north! 

Smiles,
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Post by mustachio 2/27/2021, 10:31 am

no sling, just used a bipod.
I will try re-sighting using the 3x only and see what that does for me. 
In the end I may just buy a dedicated 22 scope.
thanks for all of the insight.
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Post by mustachio 3/19/2021, 9:17 am

I reduced the scope power to 3x and re-sighted in at 25 yards. Everything is dead nuts bullseyes.Had some 9's, but that was my fault.  Moved to 4x and the same. Moved to 5x and the same. I will shoot no higher than 4x. I am using 2" targets with the 10 ring being 1/16" in diameter. See photo. I hope the problem is solved. 
I made sure that all screws were torqued properly and the mount was not loose. 
Thanks for all the advice on getting me back on target.
PS: I used Geco Semi-auto and Norma Tac-22 and the results were the same, and it did not matter which range I shot at, results the same.
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