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Linotype for Sale

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Post by Bullshooter 2/28/2021, 6:05 am

Many years ago a shooting buddy and I bought out all the linotype metal from a small printing shop that was going out of business. I've been a bullet caster for almost 50 years, but after moving a couple thousand pounds of this great stuff from house to house over the years, I've come to realize that I have much more than I'll ever be able to use in one lifetime. I'd rather not sell and ship it in small lots, if someone is interested in 50 or 100 pounds to pick up in southern Wisconsin. FYI, standard linotype metal is 84% lead, 12% antimony, and 4% tin. It casts a perfect hard rifle bullet as is, or cut it back 50/50 with wheel weights and it approximates the 92/6/2 alloy that many commercial casters use. For many years, I cast my 50 yard bullets of straight lino, these would easily shoot around 1.5" off the Ransom rest. I'm also looking for input as to what the going rate is for linotype - this is all in type form as it came out of the type printer. Thanks.
Walt

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Post by Wobbley 2/28/2021, 9:45 am

RotoMetals gets $22 for a 5 pound bar.

If you were only closer...sigh....
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Post by PhotoEscape 2/28/2021, 10:09 am

PM sent.
AP
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Post by C7@71 2/28/2021, 6:47 pm

Wobbley wrote:RotoMetals gets $22 for a 5 pound bar.

If you were only closer...sigh....
Buddy and I, ex Engineers, think we could make a little bread @ that.  Shipping is cheap as the USPS will ship up to 70 pounds for $9 in a padded flat rate or if you like a medium box, $14.

We did the math...

Assume you cast a 50/50 mix of 230 (ACP) 147 (9mm).  You get 37 project8les per pound,  @ $4.40 per pound, that is $0.119 or $119 per Thousand.

Brazos is back ordered, but their prices are $42 for the following.

450 ACP 230 & 704 9mm 147.  So you pay $0.093 per ACP and $0.060 for the 9mm.  That averages $0.077 per, based on the 50/50 mix.   That is $77 per Thousand.

That means your break even on casting is $2.84....PER POUND.  

does not sound like a viable effort for the labor unless you get into the $1.00 or so per pound.  NOW, if you cannot buy...

The $4.40 per pound is more than copper....

As I said, or think I did...scrap weights locally are paying $0.37 - $0.49 per pound of lead....figure 90% yield on good scrap and you would be in the upper $0.50’s...

$4.40 sure seems a bit extravagant...

Please, if interested, check my math.  I get rid of scrap batteries and the posted or quoted prices of $0.14 - $0.19 is correct...as Interstate will give you around $0.20 if memory is correct....got $28 or so out of two RV batteries in the 60-65 pound range.

My thoughts....not meant to be adversely received....

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Post by USSR 2/28/2021, 7:12 pm

The going rate for linotype last year was $3 per pound.

Don
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Post by C7@71 3/1/2021, 7:56 am

USSR wrote:The going rate for linotype last year was $3 per pound.

Don

No doubting that.  Just a matter of WHAT the need is and what "LEAD" is required.  The Linotype, based on some comments and questions that I put to an expert shooter and top notch metallurgist is.... Linotype is expensive and is best suited for higher velocity, perhaps even gas checks, "HARD" cast bullets.

If you want "soft" or the equivalent of the commercial pistol casters.  Then you have to look up the specs...  50% Pure (not wheel weights) Lead and 50% "Wheel Weights - after refining and removing the contaminants" will match the quoted specs for commercial cast bullets.

Therefore, since the Linotype is harder, the correct (guestimated) ratios might be..to duplicate the Commercial Caster's raw materials....

1 Part Linotype & 3 - 4 Parts PURE Lead (NOT Wheel Weights).  OR

1 Part Linotype & 6 - 8 Parts Refined or processed Wheel Weights

The comments were about the relative high cost of the Linotype....and that the APPLICATION is the key.

SO, from an economic stand point, the Linotype is a very expensive metal for "Soft" cast bullets.....compared to what the specs are and there are still casters that are supplying bullets.

BUT, if the application requires Linotype....then it is what it is.

NOW....what I posted is based on the quoted and also specs for each type of lead....from the standard specs and "Material Certs"...

In theory....this is correct.  In Practice, whatever ratio or formula works for a shooter and he has confidence in it, is what he should use....as long as he knows the application and the costs.

I have been told that one could probably shoot lower velocity Linotype bullets without a gas check and not worry about leading or such in a pistol. BUT, that is like putting premium racing fuel (120 Octane) in a Yugo....when it was calibrated for Regular (87).  I KNOW this for a fact as I was the Manufacturing Services Manager that made and helped test all the carburetors for the Yugo....  A bit off subject....but the best example I can give.

Again, this is not AD Stomping, but correcting or at least voicing an opinion on the best practice and recommendations for using Linotype and casting the equivalent of "Commercial" cast pistol bullets....like the BE shooters might consider....

The ratios THEN bring down the cost....

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Post by Wobbley 3/1/2021, 11:20 am

Approximate hardness levels and their uses:

Linotype 21-23 BHN; velocities 1700 fps and up

50-50 Lino lead (Magnum Bullet Alloy) 17-19 BHN; velocities 1200-1700.

25-75 Lino Lead (“Bullseye” alloy) 10-13 BHN; velocities 1200 and lower
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Post by C7@71 3/1/2021, 11:57 am

Wobbley wrote:Approximate hardness levels and their uses:

Linotype 21-23 BHN; velocities 1700 fps and up

50-50 Lino lead (Magnum Bullet Alloy) 17-19 BHN; velocities 1200-1700.

25-75 Lino Lead (“Bullseye” alloy) 10-13 BHN; velocities 1200 and lower

Coincidentally, my buddy just sent me a followup email...you guys would have a ball...discussing....

He had a LOT of PURE lead and had to alloy it.  His calculation was that he was shooting BHN of 9.  HMMM....Wheel Weights are BHN 9....so he did not alloy or change anything....he just kept his "Muffin Tin" Wheelweight ingots segregated from the Pure Lead he has left...

We are shooting lower velocity loads....He loads his 124 9mm's to around 1025 FPS or so....so he prefers the BHN of 9... 

THERE will be a pop quiz later on.  Will NOT be OPEN BOOK....study hard.... bounce affraid

BHN as follows...

Pure Lead -                 5
Wheelweights -           9 (BEST BUY choice.....).. but NOT tested by Consumer Reports...
10-1 Lead-Tin Alloy - 11.5
Linotype -                22

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Post by USSR 3/1/2021, 6:17 pm

C7@71,

There are a bazillion ways to use linotype depending upon what other forms of lead you have.   I have been using it for years with pure, COWW's and various other types of lead.   While it is somewhat expensive, you typically use very little of it in whatever alloy you are creating.

Don
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Post by C7@71 3/15/2021, 9:42 am

My shooting and Metallurgist buddy sent me this.

I have two (2) four pound ingots of Tuftin nickel 73 alloy. This is maybe twice as hard as linotype? The cast boolits forum has a thread about this. It is a very low lead mostly tin alloy hardened with a bit of nickel and antimony. He says melting point, based on the tertiary phase diagram suggests 550-600 dF.

The front  of the ingots are marked:
"high test TUFTIN nickel alloy"
Jackson-wheeler metals inc. Brooklyn 7,  n.y.
The back is marked 73 inside a diamond and the word nickel. Both are stamped in.

There also references to its use on the AR forums.  Past THAT....WHO KNOWS?

BUT, if anyone is interested, then PM me and we can start a conversation. The shipping on it will be cheap...  $9 and insured with tracking.

Want it...?  Want to TRADE something for it...like PURE lead or WheelWeights?  We have friends that are just getting started in casting.  

He said it would be a real challenge...and I know that folks here like that. This will NOT be priced at GOLD or Platinum levels...

He just does not need it and we could use some projectiles in calibers or weights that he is not casting for, currently.  

Thanks....

PS...if the Moderators feel this should be moved to BARTER...then please do so...

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