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Flabbergasted

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James Hensler
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Post by Dehumanizer Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:53 am

Today's plan was to come up with some scientific way of adjusting my sights during a match. I zeroed in at 50 yds and moved to the 25. I was around an inch high 25 yds. I marked the 50 on my elevation adjustment and gave it 4 clicks down on my 25. Ok all is good.  Got rid of the steady bag. Reset my sight to the 50 yds mark and free handed some shots. Clicked 4 down switched to the 25 and fired some shots. My 50 yds target had an ok group but all were in the 8 ring below the X. My 25 yds were all within the 9, 10 or X. Tested it again with the steady rest and while locked in they are zeroed. Back to free hand and the same result.

I am either flinching or the gun moves down before the bullet exits the barrel. I do not see the flinch at 25 yds target. I know it is exadurated at 50 yds. I am shooting Remington gold bullets currently and they are super sonic. So bullet drop between 25 and 50 should not be 3 or 4 inches.

I do dry fire and do not see a flinch. But then again it might be so small that I am not picking it up.

Why else would it be zeroed when resting the barrel and be 4 inches off free hand? Any ideas besides the ones I covered?

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Post by james r chapman Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:06 am

I don't believe .22 should really require an elevation change. (?)

what is your hold point? center? 6'o'clock, sub 6?
different at each yardage?
more info needed.
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Post by Dehumanizer Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:15 am

james r chapman wrote:I don't believe .22 should really require an elevation change. (?)

what is your hold point? center? 6'o'clock, sub 6?
different at each yardage?
more info needed.
Center. Never changes. (As recommended here.) Also recommended to do sight adjustments for 50 to 25. Almost thinking that is a bad idea at this point.

Going to tear the gun down this week and look for loose barrel screw. I did put blue loctite on the barrel screw when I swapped to the Volquartsen. A loose screw would explain why on the rest it is good but free hand it is not.

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Post by SMBeyer Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:55 am

Point of impact off a rest is pretty much meaningless to one hand unsupported shooting.  It will get you in the general area but that's it.  No pistol I have that is sighted in for me will shoot in the center of a target when shot off a rest.
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Post by -TT- Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:27 pm

You might want to test by supporting your arm, resting it on something just below your elbow with your hand and gun free to move. The harmonics of the shot will not be significantly disturbed, but with care, you won't "dip". Be sure to keep your normal sight picture though, don't "scrunch".

Shoot ten shots minimum, and compare the centers of the groups between 25 and 50. That should get you started.

Don't ever expect sighting-in to be a one time thing. Many top shooters will adjust a click or two after every shot, if they find it lands off call. Less skilled shooters should maybe not sweat it quite so often.

My Benelli (4" barrel) with SK Pistol Match requires about 2 MOA of downward adjustment when moving from 50yd to 25yd. It's almost not worth it, given the size of the 25yd bull.
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Post by dlevasse Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:56 pm

Here is my 2 cents worth I am about 4 years into shooting Bullseye so still learning. I have sighted in my guns using a sand bag, when I go to one hand my shots tended to be left edge of the black. I feel the reason the shots are left is poor grip, to much trigger finger, .....
So I refused to move the sights thinking I need to work on my poor skills. Just recently I moved the sights, I like how the shots are more centered in the black. We have been shooting 50' indoors some times when I have to share the range I will shoot as close as 21' my shots tend to be about 1" low at that range I think it is eye hand coordination that is the cause. I always though 22lr shot pretty flat.

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Post by James Hensler Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:04 pm

This happens to me also. All I can come up with it’s my eyes. When I use a 5 gallon bucket and a sand bag to rest my arm just like actually shooting one handed the zero is the same as one handed. Then sit down and use a rest and the impacts are dead nuts center X. Only thing is sight radius I guess
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Post by xman Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:48 pm

The popular sentiment in this thread Seems to be seems to be not to use a rest with the pistol on it . I will admit that is my technique, resting the forend on the sandbag and firing away. Next time I am at my range I will rest my arm between the wrist and elbow on the rest so that the pistol in my hand is free and not static.
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Post by Dehumanizer Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:12 pm

I will try sighting without the rest at the barrel but at my forearm. The exact science of all of this is there is no exact science to any of it. I have always sighted in a rest but never thought that the gun in my hand would be part of where the bullet goes.

Logically it makes no sense to me. If zero in rest it should be zero in free hand. But will test more.

As always thanks to everyone who replied.

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Post by bob finger Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:36 pm

Flabbergasted:  Your logic is faulty, not your firearm.  Anytime you put upward pressure on the barrel the POI will change from when there is no pressure on it.  Rethink  your logic.  If when you shoot free handed you grab the barrel and push it up then you should be about the same as when you put the barrel on a rest.  But you don't shoot that way, do you.  

Every firearm I've ever shot, if the barrel is restricted in any way it will have a POI different than if the barrel is free to move, vibrate, oscillate whatever you want to call it.  Get close with your rest then fine tune shooting as you will in a match.  Works every time.  Good luck and have fun.  bob

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Post by -TT- Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:17 pm

Here's another way to think about it. If you hung the gun on a string, sighted it perfectly and caused the hammer to fall, would you expect it to hit the target? If you encased it in concrete and did the same?

Ok, so where is your hand/arm on that scale?

Trust me, it will change as the match plays out, too.
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Post by Dehumanizer Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:02 am

Well if anything I proved something to myself that I would have argued. Thanks again for all the replies.

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Post by Toz35m Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:00 pm

If I were you starting out in BE I would not adjust my sights until I was shooting small groups.  However I have shot many times over 880 and do not touch my 22 sights between 50 and 25.  The POI change is small that it is inside the x ring.

It took me until I was shooting expert scores with the 45 until I started to make sight adjustment between 50 and 25.
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Post by rreid Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:02 pm

The one thing I'll say is you need to be able to call your shots. If you can't, you'll never be able to make a sight adjustment during a match with any degree of confidence.
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