Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by hengehold 3/9/2021, 10:05 am

I have the ability to acquire some CCI 350 magnum pistol primers. Can I use these to load 185gr bullet and Bullseye powder In the 45 acp? 

I called CCI and their service rep told me the chamber pressure will go up if I use a magnum primer because it has more primer compound in the cup. I responded with “what if I reduce the powder charge accordingly”. The CCI rep said that the increased air space in the case as a result of the reduced powder charge will also result in increased pressures because more oxygen promotes burning. I don’t necessarily buy his logic. I need to hear from someone who has used magnum primers in a 45 acp with light target loads.

hengehold

Posts : 134
Join date : 2017-11-26

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by Al 3/9/2021, 10:29 am

I can't speak for CCI's, but I've used Federal magnum lg pistol in place of stnd lg pistol with no difference in point of impact or felt recoil. Brass & primer showed no differences.

Our loads are normally on the low side of pressures.
Allen

PS: my short line load is either BE or Clays, 3.6 gr w/200 gr swc. Long line is 4.5 BE w/Zero 185JHP.


Last edited by Al on 3/9/2021, 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

Al

Posts : 555
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 65
Location : Bismarck, ND

Multiracer likes this post

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by Schaumannk 3/9/2021, 11:11 am

hengehold wrote:I have the ability to acquire some CCI 350 magnum pistol primers. Can I use these to load 185gr bullet and Bullseye powder In the 45 acp? 

I called CCI and their service rep told me the chamber pressure will go up if I use a magnum primer because it has more primer compound in the cup. I responded with “what if I reduce the powder charge accordingly”. The CCI rep said that the increased air space in the case as a result of the reduced powder charge will also result in increased pressures because more oxygen promotes burning. I don’t necessarily buy his logic. I need to hear from someone who has used magnum primers in a 45 acp with light target loads.
Here is the thing.  Bullseye loads are so light compared to factory loads, that their service rep isn’t really giving you good information.  Highly unlikely that you exceed max pressures for the round.  And if airspace was a problem you could just use a slower burning powder.  

Give us an example of what powder you intend to use.  Someone here can recommend a good starting point.

Schaumannk

Posts : 507
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Cheyenne, WY

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by fc60 3/9/2021, 11:29 am

Greetings,

Interesting post.

The old Gil Hebard "Shooters Treasury" has an article published by CCI.

Within the text, they state that Magnum Primers can be substituted for Standard Primers with no ill effects in pistol as the powder burns so fast.

Cheers,

Dave

PS  I did test small pistol primers in the 32 WadCutter and found that small pistol, small rifle, and magnum pistol all shot the same velocities. CAVEAT, Winchester Small Pistol Magnum did elevate the average velocity from 700 to 730 FPS.
fc60
fc60

Posts : 994
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : South Prairie, WA 98385

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by hengehold 3/9/2021, 11:37 am

fc60 wrote:Greetings,

Interesting post.

The old Gil Hebard "Shooters Treasury" has an article published by CCI.

Within the text, they state that Magnum Primers can be substituted for Standard Primers with no ill effects in pistol as the powder burns so fast.

Cheers,

Dave

PS  I did test small pistol primers in the 32 WadCutter and found that small pistol, small rifle, and magnum pistol all shot the same velocities. CAVEAT, Winchester Small Pistol Magnum did elevate the average velocity from 700 to 730 FPS.

Perfect, thank you for the info.

hengehold

Posts : 134
Join date : 2017-11-26

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by hengehold 3/9/2021, 11:40 am

Schaumannk wrote:
hengehold wrote:I have the ability to acquire some CCI 350 magnum pistol primers. Can I use these to load 185gr bullet and Bullseye powder In the 45 acp? 

I called CCI and their service rep told me the chamber pressure will go up if I use a magnum primer because it has more primer compound in the cup. I responded with “what if I reduce the powder charge accordingly”. The CCI rep said that the increased air space in the case as a result of the reduced powder charge will also result in increased pressures because more oxygen promotes burning. I don’t necessarily buy his logic. I need to hear from someone who has used magnum primers in a 45 acp with light target loads.
Here is the thing.  Bullseye loads are so light compared to factory loads, that their service rep isn’t really giving you good information.  Highly unlikely that you exceed max pressures for the round.  And if airspace was a problem you could just use a slower burning powder.  

Give us an example of what powder you intend to use.  Someone here can recommend a good starting point.

That is what I suspected. I have Bullseye and Unique powder now and will have to use that until my order of VV310 arrives (probably in about a year or two).

hengehold

Posts : 134
Join date : 2017-11-26

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by Schaumannk 3/9/2021, 12:05 pm

Bullseye is fine.    What bullets are you using?  Unique is a little slow, and also quite dirty.  Better for revolver loads.

Schaumannk

Posts : 507
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Cheyenne, WY

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by rburk 3/9/2021, 2:24 pm

I have been using WLP's, which are labeled as for standard or magnum loads.  I recently was able to get some Federal mag large pistol primers.  I don't have a chronograph, but they seem to function almost identically to the WLP's with my 45 loads, I am using 160 gr. Brazos bullets with 4.2gr of WST.  This load is right on the edge of reliable function with a 12# recoil spring.

Thinking that the Federal mag primers might be hotter, I started with 4.0 of WST, and got an occasional FTE, and the slide did not always lock back on the last shot.  I moved back up to 4.2 gr and they work fine.

rburk

Posts : 53
Join date : 2019-09-26
Location : SoCal

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by hengehold 3/9/2021, 3:49 pm

Schaumannk wrote:Bullseye is fine.    What bullets are you using?  Unique is a little slow, and also quite dirty.  Better for revolver loads.

Thanks. I will be using 185gr/200gr SWC and 185 JHP for EIC. 

Sounds like I should give the magnum primers a try. 

Thanks to everyone for the input. 
-Trevor

hengehold

Posts : 134
Join date : 2017-11-26

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by Schaumannk 3/9/2021, 4:01 pm

hengehold wrote:
Schaumannk wrote:Bullseye is fine.    What bullets are you using?  Unique is a little slow, and also quite dirty.  Better for revolver loads.

Thanks. I will be using 185gr/200gr SWC and 185 JHP for EIC. 

Sounds like I should give the magnum primers a try. 

Thanks to everyone for the input. 
-Trevor
Ok.  I understand you are having a gun built.  Your next question, for your gunsmith is what to use in your gun?  The main criteria will be recoil spring weight, and whether you have slide mounted optics.  Frame mounted optics are the same as irons.  They don’t add weight to the slide that needs to be accounted for in your loads.  In general jacketed Bullets require about 4/10ths of a grain more powder than the same weight bullet in lead.  Somewhere between 3.6 of Bullseye and 4.0 will be the sweet spot for your 200 grain Bullets.  Probably between 3.8 and 4.2 for the 185g lead SWC Bullets, and somewhere around 4.4 to 4.6 for your 185JHPs which ought to give you good accuracy at the long line.  YMMV.

Schaumannk

Posts : 507
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Cheyenne, WY

hengehold likes this post

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by jjfitch 3/9/2021, 8:43 pm

This question has come up quite often during this primer crisis! Numerous posters have stated that their experience showed little to no change in felt recoil or POA/POI! Some posters even indicated a slight tightening of ES!

My own experience with a mid range 9mm load a few years ago showed an average increase of 25 PFS. Some posters showed a little more some showed a little less. 

Your load and barrel will tell you what it likes! 

Smile,
jjfitch
jjfitch

Posts : 82
Join date : 2012-08-31
Age : 74
Location : The Beautiful Pacific Northwest

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by WesG 5/24/2021, 1:42 pm

Good info.

Thought I'd bump this, as I've run out of standard LP primers. WLP gave way to several hundred CCI-300's, and now I'm starting on a brick of 350's. Loaded 40 rds to try, if I get a chance.

Also looked into small primer brass, just in case I wind up needing the 5k of 500's ;-) But didn't find any available.

WesG

Posts : 274
Join date : 2018-09-21
Location : Cedar Park, TX - N CA

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by jglenn21 5/24/2021, 4:24 pm

The one experiment i did using WLP  verses a std CCI large pistol and jacketed 185 Zeros showed the WLP ammo to have around 50 fps higher velocities than the CCI across multiple loads..if there was a difference in impact i did not see it.
jglenn21
jglenn21

Posts : 2193
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 73
Location : monroe , ga

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by Rinspeed 6/9/2021, 5:26 pm

When things have gotten tight I've used mag primers instead of regular primers many times.  Most of my loads are midrange though so if I was at the upper end I would certainly back the powder off a couple tenths.   I read that a couple people were getting 30 fps over but I wouldn't be surprised at 50 over.

Rinspeed

Posts : 4
Join date : 2016-04-15

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by apipeguy 6/10/2021, 7:53 am

I did some test rounds a couple weeks ago with Winchester SPP and Federal Magnum SPP. No felt difference and no change in POI. Chrono results showed no difference as well. These were mid range loads.
apipeguy
apipeguy

Posts : 64
Join date : 2018-03-28
Age : 65
Location : Michigan

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by bruce martindale 6/10/2021, 12:32 pm

rburk, if you have it, go to a faster powder for B160 bullets; they are a bit light for WST.

bruce martindale

Posts : 879
Join date : 2011-07-29
Location : Upstate NY

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by rburk 6/10/2021, 3:09 pm

Thank you Bruce, the 160s do seem to leave unburnt powder.  I don't have many powder options besides WST, I have a little old 700x and some E3.

For now, I will probably shoot more 180 gr bullets.  They group just as well and with a lower powder charge, seem to recoil about the same.  I will also crimp them at .465.

rburk

Posts : 53
Join date : 2019-09-26
Location : SoCal

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by bruce martindale 6/10/2021, 4:30 pm

I never used e3 but 700x is good.

bruce martindale

Posts : 879
Join date : 2011-07-29
Location : Upstate NY

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by USSR 6/10/2021, 5:38 pm

bruce martindale wrote:I never used e3 but 700x is good.
Yeah, 700X and Red Dot are both great handgun and shotshell powders.

Don
USSR
USSR

Posts : 280
Join date : 2017-07-14
Age : 70
Location : Finger Lakes Region of NY

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by rich.tullo 6/10/2021, 6:57 pm

There should be little to no change. I find with temperature sensitive powders VN310 and WST maybe the magnum primer does a little better in cold days. At 4gn there should be no difference at 3.6gn of VN310 or BE maybe standard primers will give you a little better burn. 

My guess at mid range to max load 9mm Magnums will be better and worse for 38 Special. 

Mag primers burn a little faster and hotter thus may leave unspent powder with light charges and burn better with heavier charges, But in reality the difference may be negligible at Bullseye velocities. I would never worry about over pressure with 45ACP Bullseye loads.  

The only time I would worry about pressure is with using a fast powder with short loaded 9MM 147gn. For example the range for HAP 147gn is 2.5 to 2.8. VN310 they are more accurate at 2.8. So no MP for that load.
rich.tullo
rich.tullo

Posts : 1395
Join date : 2015-03-27

Back to top Go down

Standard vs magnum pistol primer Empty Re: Standard vs magnum pistol primer

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum