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Model 41 - oil on the top round long term.

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Post by lanjo Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

Hi All,

I think I finally got my Model 41 running well enough to avoid FTE.  Part of the solution is to add a touch of oil on the top round. I am unsure if this will cause problems with the gun over many years of doing it.  Has anyone put oil on the top round this for extended periods of time (10+ years)?  Any problems aquired over this time?

I am currently using Rem Oil for this.  It has Teflon in it.  I would assume the Teflon would build up over time and clog the chamber.  Any suggestions on the type of oil to use for this?

Best,

Joe

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Post by Brent375hh Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:31 am

I can't see for the life of me how an oiled chamber could cause increased chamber pressure. There is a given amount of pressure from fired powder supported by the chamber. The brass is the gasket. Having a layer of oil between outside of said gasket and chamber can't increase the pressure of the burning propellant.
I can see how it could cause both higher bolt thrust and faster unlocking, possibly allowing the brass the rupture when the slide starts to move prior to peak pressure drop.
SK Standard Plus is mighty greasy stuff. If I coated my old dried out Winchester T22 in STP, I'm not sure I could tell the difference blindfolded.

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Post by farmboy Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:10 am

I don't use oil - fortunately have never had a reason to even consider using it. 

I have always been intrigued by this subject because of the quality, expertise and track record of the individuals that are opponents of the practice.  However, in the area of the country where I shoot probably 35-50% of the shooter at any given match are placing oil on the 1st round and have for years and years.  I am not aware of any real problems and nothing on the level of catastrophic failure. When the subject comes up from time to time of the various forums I have not observed individuals posting with testimonials indicating they experienced failures from the practice.  

Anyway just my observations. Your mileage may vary as they say.  Kind of a head scratcher to me.
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Post by Brent375hh Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:46 am

Deflate a bike tire and record ow many pumps it takes to achieve 50 psi.
Remove the tube, reinstall after oiling it, pump the same amount, the result will be 50 psi. That is unless the oil helps the tube find a way out of the assembly and rupture.

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Post by mikemyers Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:37 am

In the 1990's, I didn't need anything for my 41.  As far as I can remember, it just worked.

Several years ago, I was getting FTEs too often.
One drop of Remington gun oil on the top round of a magazine helped.
Wiping all five rounds on a piece of cloth before loading helped better.

I'm now shooting CMP bulk Eley ammo, at least until I run out, and I don't need to do any of the above in my 41, although the cases get harder to remove from the chambers of my Model 17-5 revolver.  Thanks to some help from people here, that situation has improved.
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Post by CO1Mtn Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:47 pm

Sounds more like your recoil spring is too strong.
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Post by GME Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:23 pm

Makes sense that the recoil spring could be involved.  Wolff Springs sell springs for the M-41.  Factory std is 7.5 lbs.  Wolff has springs in 6, 6.5, 7, 7.5 and 8 lbs.  Prices aren't too bad - $7.89 each.

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Post by mikemyers Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:04 pm

If you buy the Wolff Springs for your Model 41, *Do Not!!* install them as per the instructions.  You do NOT want the open end of the spring to face forwards, like on a 1911.  That is a recipe for disaster, as the spring finds the small hole in front, and starts to unwind into the gun,  until everything locks up solid, and the Model 41 becomes a paperweight.
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Post by bbh791 Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:46 pm

I’ve never oiled the first round on mine and it always functions with CCI standard and sub sonic.  My Ruger MKII had bad problems with Aguila and determined the rim thickness was to great for the extractor to get a good grip on it to pull out.

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Post by TexasBeaucaire Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:23 pm

new volquartsen extractor has helped my model 41

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Post by xman Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:51 pm

I never had to oil up CCI SV or Blazers. When I dug into my Aguila SE for my M41 I had to oil the top round or I would get various types of FTE Failure to extract.
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Post by CO1Mtn Sat May 01, 2021 9:56 pm

If you have to oil the top round, that means that the slide is barely able to do its job because it's barely overcoming friction and spring force necessary to eject the round. Adding a little oil helps out a little by reducing friction. But that's treating the symptom, not the cause. The cause is the main spring and/or recoil spring is too strong so the slide may not be coming back far enough to eject the brass and strip a new round from the mag.
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Post by JNW1 Sun May 02, 2021 4:34 pm

Interesting thread. Oiling the top round in a M41 is obviously a common routine. Are there any other pistols that require this to the degree the 41 does?
Thanks,
Jeff

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Post by CO1Mtn Mon May 03, 2021 9:36 pm

I had to do it with my Nelson conversion until I reduced the power of the main spring.
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