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Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question

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Slamfire
REConley
JIMPGOV
spursnguns
Distinguished-2086
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Post by Distinguished-2086 3/18/2021, 10:48 am

Does anyone have a opinion on the Clark Custom Mod 41 conversions that Clark Custom does on S&W 41's.. Mine is getting very tired as its 30+ years old when I checked the serial number. I've had it fo 10 years.

Distinguished-2086

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Post by spursnguns 3/18/2021, 11:35 am

Hello Distinguished-2086,

How does your current one shoot and function?

Jim
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Post by JIMPGOV 3/18/2021, 1:51 pm

I PERSONALLY WOULD SAY DON'T. IF YOU WANT IT REFRESHED. I'D SEND IT ALEX HAMILTON AT 10X IN SAN ANTONIO AND HAVE HIM RELINE THE BARREL AND GO THROUGH IT. JP

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Post by REConley 3/18/2021, 2:16 pm

I maybe biased as I have three, just getting the latest one back last month with both a 6 1/2" and 5 1/2" STC barrels and their tuning and trigger job.  They shoot, no jams, no FTE and and if you are a Red Dot user the STC barrels without the overhang of the bolt will do away with all issues other than light loads.  If you are happy with all but the barrel, I would send it down for one and have them test fire it for you. They have a 50 yards tunnel on the property so you can see what the pistol is capable of on its own.
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Post by Distinguished-2086 3/21/2021, 10:46 am

It is tired.. I bought it years ago at the San Fran Gun Exchange and shot it at the Presidio Pistol club until Kaly shut it down when the feds turned it over to the state.
  Where I've moved to now they have weekly Bullseye matches - indoors at 50 ft / 16.5 yards. It was jamming constantly suddenly and it was sent to a Smith for repair / reliability.. It worked for a while and it was jamming again. Clark had said that they will garrettee its reliability and while its there, Im leaning heavily for the full conversion. I watched their video on taking the 22lr ammo and putting it in a baggie with a few drops of gun oil and shaking it up.. That really did help. I was very surprised !!!. I have a clark custom bullseye 45 they did for me in 1991 , so a Clark 22LR Bullseye Mod 41 is very appealing.

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Post by Slamfire 5/29/2021, 6:23 pm

Distinguished-2086 wrote:It is tired.. I bought it years ago at the San Fran Gun Exchange and shot it at the Presidio Pistol club until Kaly shut it down when the feds turned it over to the state.
  Where I've moved to now they have weekly Bullseye matches - indoors at 50 ft / 16.5 yards. It was jamming constantly suddenly and it was sent to a Smith for repair / reliability.. It worked for a while and it was jamming again. Clark had said that they will garrettee its reliability and while its there, Im leaning heavily for the full conversion. I watched their video on taking the 22lr ammo and putting it in a baggie with a few drops of gun oil and shaking it up.. That really did help. I was very surprised !!!. I have a clark custom bullseye 45 they did for me in 1991 , so a Clark 22LR Bullseye Mod 41 is very appealing.

Maybe the "bolt" is loose. This is part 6508 in this picture. This is the part the firing pin goes through and it supports the case head. Notice that it is pinned and splined.


 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question Jzh0Cpa

These get loose in time, they move, which causes failures to eject. The basic solution is to peen the splines and make a tight fit.

These blowback pistols require as little case to chamber friction as possible. Oil will help break case to chamber friction, and in my experience, seems to seal the bore better. Oil will dissolve to a certain level the wax and crud that comes out of the breech during extraction, but for those laxy bones, you will still have to clean your pistol at some point.




Over 100 years ago the US Army created a coverup to misdirect the problem of their low number 1903 Springfields blowing up. Army Arsenals were woefully behind the times and did not have temperature gauges in the forging shops or on the heat treat ovens. With the exception of one pyrometer used on springs, steel temperatures were judged by human eyes. This resulted in over one million rifles having suspect receivers. The basic problem was human eye is not precise enough to hold the temperature tolerances needed, and still today, there are reports of burnt low number M1903's blowing up.

 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question WONXBTG


The Army, of course, never admitted fault and decided to scapegoat shooters for the defective rifles that blew up. At the time, the cupronickel bullets used horribly fouled the bores, leaving lumpy jacket fouling that took severe chemicals to remove.



Shooters were lubricating their bullets with axle greases, and that absolutely, positively, prevented jacket fouling with cupronickel bullets. I have done with the cupronickel 303 British. This ammunition created lumpy fouling that took weeks and weeks of Sweets to reduce, but I was never able to completely remove the stuff. However, coating the bullets in grease positively prevented jacket fouling.



 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question AYarnP3

though any grease will do. These are 30-06.



 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question WYu3fXJ


Since these "perfect" Army rifles were blowing up with "perfect" Army ammunition, and everyone was greasing their bullets, the Army claimed the problem was the grease. The Army claimed any oil/grease would unpredictably raise pressures, and increase bolt thrust. This was a coverup and a misdirection, but the authority of the Army has been such, it has taken about a century before holes are being poked in story.




I am of the opinion that breaking the friction between case and chamber is a good thing for any semi automatic mechanism, though technology has moved since 1906.

Fluted chambers ought to be on every weapon,

 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question DvT8W5U


this is an XTRAxN chamber flutes on a AR 15.   https://www.larue.com/page/xtraxn-technology-larue-tactical/


 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question PlsI3qv



 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question Becun7t



 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question AMdm7G1


the purpose of the flutes is "gas lubrication". 






 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question PB9SaEH



 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question 4jWTQi7


The upper 2/3 rds of the case is floated off the chamber, breaking the friction between the case and chamber. Only the back remains the gas seal.

The German P7 Squeeze cocker uses chamber flutes in all of its calibers.

 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question Qcq24KL


this pistol is quite the collector item.  It is a gas locked, delayed blowback. Had many innovative technologies incorporated. I think it failed for two reasons: it was a very expensive to make and 2) you could pull the trigger, and then the front strap, and the pistol would fire. I am certain some LEO's got the sequence confused. One should squeeze the front strap, and only pull the trigger when you want to fire. Given the recent fatal shooting of a motorist with a pistol, where the LEO thought she had a Taser, this shows that under stress, people get confused. I think this system of operation was too confusing off the training field.

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Post by Jon Eulette 5/29/2021, 6:41 pm

I used P7 when I attended Protective Service Course (executive protection) with the Bundes Kriminalampt (like our FBI). Loved that pistol! Might buy one just because….

Back to topic, if I was going to shoot a 41 I would probably lean toward a lined barrel. As Jerry Keefer stated many times, there are less stresses on the liner and they tend to shoot more accurately. I have several lined pistols and they all shoot exceptionally well.
Jon
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Post by Colt711 5/29/2021, 11:44 pm

Jan,

Am curious as to the reason for the statement 

 "As Jerry Keefer stated many times, there are less stresses on the liner and they tend to shoot more accurately."


Thank you,
Ron Habegger

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Post by Jon Eulette 5/30/2021, 1:44 am

Liners are epoxied or glass bedded into the existing barrel. They basically rest within the original barrel free floated in a sense. The liners are also not stressed from being turned down.
Jon
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 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question Empty Have you tried the Kroil route?

Post by xman 5/30/2021, 10:00 am

Distinguished-2086 wrote: It was jamming constantly suddenly and it was sent to a Smith for repair / reliability.. It worked for a while and it was jamming again.  I watched their video on taking the 22lr ammo and putting it in a baggie with a few drops of gun oil and shaking it up.. That really did help. I was very surprised !!!. 

I  had 2 SW 41 barrels in the same frame having bad FTEx issues. When I did the oil routine (top round only) it work like a charm. One barrel was OEM and the other a Clark STC.

When the oil splatter caused other issues with the Clark STC barrel, I needed a different solution.

With the help and suggestion of other forum members, I Kroiled both barrels and have fired several 100 rounds from each and not a single FTEx with several different brands of ammo.

Maybe your bolt is loose maybe it is not. I am sold on kroil an will incorporate it in my regular maintance with an overnight patching. YMMV

Have you bore scoped the barrel for leading at the chamber and eruption at the bolt face?
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Post by Slamfire 5/30/2021, 10:15 am

Jon Eulette wrote:I used P7 when I attended Protective Service Course (executive protection) with the Bundes Kriminalampt (like our FBI). Loved that pistol! Might buy one just because….

Should have got one while they were cheap. Ah hem....

Be surprised what they are going for now

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/899799389

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/899654407

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897772630

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Post by Slamfire 5/30/2021, 10:20 am

xman wrote:
Distinguished-2086 wrote: It was jamming constantly suddenly and it was sent to a Smith for repair / reliability.. It worked for a while and it was jamming again.  I watched their video on taking the 22lr ammo and putting it in a baggie with a few drops of gun oil and shaking it up.. That really did help. I was very surprised !!!. 




Maybe your bolt is loose maybe it is not. I am sold on kroil an will incorporate it in my regular maintance with an overnight patching. YMMV
There could be a lot of other causes, given the rather nebulous description of the malfunction:  "Jamming again".

Have you bore scoped the barrel for leading at the chamber and eruption at the bolt face?

I think it is worth while to occasionally JB bore paste rim fire barrels, but only occasionally, as in rarely. But you know, that could help, if it removes lead and crud in the chamber and throat.

What do you mean by eruption at the bolt face?  Do you mean pits?

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Post by lyman1903 6/15/2021, 5:17 pm

Slamfire wrote:
Distinguished-2086 wrote:It is tired.. I bought it years ago at the San Fran Gun Exchange and shot it at the Presidio Pistol club until Kaly shut it down when the feds turned it over to the state.
  Where I've moved to now they have weekly Bullseye matches - indoors at 50 ft / 16.5 yards. It was jamming constantly suddenly and it was sent to a Smith for repair / reliability.. It worked for a while and it was jamming again. Clark had said that they will garrettee its reliability and while its there, Im leaning heavily for the full conversion. I watched their video on taking the 22lr ammo and putting it in a baggie with a few drops of gun oil and shaking it up.. That really did help. I was very surprised !!!. I have a clark custom bullseye 45 they did for me in 1991 , so a Clark 22LR Bullseye Mod 41 is very appealing.

Maybe the "bolt" is loose. This is part 6508 in this picture. This is the part the firing pin goes through and it supports the case head. Notice that it is pinned and splined.


 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question Jzh0Cpa

These get loose in time, they move, which causes failures to eject. The basic solution is to peen the splines and make a tight fit.

These blowback pistols require as little case to chamber friction as possible. Oil will help break case to chamber friction, and in my experience, seems to seal the bore better. Oil will dissolve to a certain level the wax and crud that comes out of the breech during extraction, but for those laxy bones, you will still have to clean your pistol at some point.




Over 100 years ago the US Army created a coverup to misdirect the problem of their low number 1903 Springfields blowing up. Army Arsenals were woefully behind the times and did not have temperature gauges in the forging shops or on the heat treat ovens. With the exception of one pyrometer used on springs, steel temperatures were judged by human eyes. This resulted in over one million rifles having suspect receivers. The basic problem was human eye is not precise enough to hold the temperature tolerances needed, and still today, there are reports of burnt low number M1903's blowing up.

 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question WONXBTG


The Army, of course, never admitted fault and decided to scapegoat shooters for the defective rifles that blew up. At the time, the cupronickel bullets used horribly fouled the bores, leaving lumpy jacket fouling that took severe chemicals to remove.



Shooters were lubricating their bullets with axle greases, and that absolutely, positively, prevented jacket fouling with cupronickel bullets. I have done with the cupronickel 303 British. This ammunition created lumpy fouling that took weeks and weeks of Sweets to reduce, but I was never able to completely remove the stuff. However, coating the bullets in grease positively prevented jacket fouling.



 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question AYarnP3

though any grease will do. These are 30-06.



 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question WYu3fXJ


Since these "perfect" Army rifles were blowing up with "perfect" Army ammunition, and everyone was greasing their bullets, the Army claimed the problem was the grease. The Army claimed any oil/grease would unpredictably raise pressures, and increase bolt thrust. This was a coverup and a misdirection, but the authority of the Army has been such, it has taken about a century before holes are being poked in story.




I am of the opinion that breaking the friction between case and chamber is a good thing for any semi automatic mechanism, though technology has moved since 1906.

Fluted chambers ought to be on every weapon,

 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question DvT8W5U


this is an XTRAxN chamber flutes on a AR 15.   https://www.larue.com/page/xtraxn-technology-larue-tactical/


 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question PlsI3qv



 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question Becun7t



 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question AMdm7G1


the purpose of the flutes is "gas lubrication". 






 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question PB9SaEH



 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question 4jWTQi7


The upper 2/3 rds of the case is floated off the chamber, breaking the friction between the case and chamber. Only the back remains the gas seal.

The German P7 Squeeze cocker uses chamber flutes in all of its calibers.

 Clark Mod 41 Conversion Question Qcq24KL


this pistol is quite the collector item.  It is a gas locked, delayed blowback. Had many innovative technologies incorporated. I think it failed for two reasons: it was a very expensive to make and 2) you could pull the trigger, and then the front strap, and the pistol would fire. I am certain some LEO's got the sequence confused. One should squeeze the front strap, and only pull the trigger when you want to fire. Given the recent fatal shooting of a motorist with a pistol, where the LEO thought she had a Taser, this shows that under stress, people get confused. I think this system of operation was too confusing off the training field.


re the 1903,  there is a gentleman that posts on Jouster and Gunboards  under the name CplNorton that does research on the 1903

he has found compelling evidence to suggest that the 1903 issue was  over looked,  because it was not much of an issue, 

basically some results from grenade launching and blanks more so than the temp problems in heat treating as published by Hatcher,
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