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.22 Magazine help

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jjfitch
chiz1180
CR10X
Froneck
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.22 Magazine help - Page 2 Empty .22 Magazine help

Post by Froneck 3/20/2021, 11:15 am

First topic message reminder :

As posted I'm making a .22 conversion for the 1911. I'm at the point where I have to put th barrel in location. I have a Nelson conversion and copied some of the dimensions. Other will be mine due to my intention to put the ejector on the frame like the 1911 and it will be a modified (wider width) 1911 ejector.
 I have a .22 Ace mag and another that has no name but an interesting round logo. Both seem very similar. I have the plastic magazine that came with the Nelson and purchased the German GSG .22 Mag for 1911. Also purchased Colt 1911.22 mag. from Gun Magazine Warehouse. Was steel but will not fit a 1911. Sent them back. Also have magazines from other top made pistols. The lips of the Colt Ace and the clone plus AW93, Baikal and  Hammerli are very similar. The rear lips are quite long, about 5/8" and the front lips nearest the barrel chamber are about 19/64" long. The sets are separated by a notch with an angle that will force the rim of the case upward.  However the Nelson and GSG mags have a similar front set of lips yet the rear set are quite a bit shorter by about 1/4".
 In the other target .22 pistols listed when I slowly allow the slide to close the .22 bullet begins to enter the barrel about 7/32" before reaching the notch and released buy the rear lips. However when looking at the Nelson with the Nelson mag (has slightly shorter rear lips than the GSG). The Bullet is at least 1/4" before the  barrel bore and the cartridge will fall out of the gun and not chamber. Yes if I release the catch and allow the spring to close the slide at a fast rate the cartridge will chamber. When I do the same thing with the other pistols mentioned the cartridge enters the chamber when the slide is closed sloooly.
 In looking at the Nelson I see he has the Barrel in about the same place as the 45ACP barrel when locked up. Yet the .45 barrel moves to the read when unlocked so that the .45 bullet will enter the barrel a short distance and will chamber if the slide is allowed to close slooowly.
 Thinking that is a problem with the Nelson and possibly other conversions I'm fitting the barrel further back, I'm at the point when the Ace magazine will allow the bullet to enter the barrel about 1/8" before the rim reaches the notch. However if I use the Nelson or GSG mag it will not.
 That is my problem, should I move the barrel back far enough to work like the target Pistols mentioned so I can use a GSG mag.? I could use the Ace magazine and the clone but can't find another clone and Ace magazines on ebay sell for a fortune!
 Any thoughts on this???

Froneck

Posts : 1029
Join date : 2014-04-05
Age : 74

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Post by Wes Lorenz 4/4/2021, 12:26 pm

Why not TIG weld the rim lips a little longer until it works? Machine a copper bar and profile to suit, then install in mag before welding. Nickel-Chrome rod works on hardened steel. 
Or you could machine a block and weld it into the top of a cut off mag and make mill cuts until successful.
I added tabs to my HS mag to keep them from rattling around in a newer HS magwell. Haven't had any problems since.

Wes Lorenz

Posts : 285
Join date : 2011-06-27
Location : Washington

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Post by Froneck 4/4/2021, 5:34 pm

Wes; Nelson Magazines are plastic and GSG mags are die-cast Aluminum or something similar. Jagemann mags are plastic too. Metalform and Ace mags work but unavailable. Those even used are bringing a fortune on ebay. I can move the barrel back and did, works with the Ace and Metalform mags. But the barrel is as far back as possible and still have a ramp that's needed due to the ammo nose diving when pushed forward. Being that with speed the round will enter the chamber and jump the well over 1/4" large gap in my Nelson conversion they might work better when I try them after completing my conversion but if I try to slowly close the slide with the Nelson provided mag and GSG in the conversion I'm making they are flipped out of mag. up about 6". They will do the same in the Nelson conversion I have but due to the scope mount on the barrel they hit the mount then simply fall out the side. The extractor I was waiting for arrived so I'll install it and cut the recess for the rim. I have a few projects to complete, guys are waiting for trigger shoes so I'll have to complete them before tinkering with my toy.

Froneck

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Post by Kermit Workman 4/5/2021, 12:16 pm

Froneck,
 After your last email I got out my modified Jagemann magazines and compared them to the Jagemann photos on their website.
 Again from 4-5 years ago, the Jagemann magazines at that time was not like those show on the present web page. IIRC the right side body came up to an abrupt angle with the feed lip. The present magazines have a radius there. This is the exact area where my magazines are/were modified. My ASSUMPTION is Jagemann has modified their magazine since mine are 5 years old.
 After Camp Perry I had communications with Dennis(IIRC) at Marvel. I returned one of the modified magazines so that he could measure the amount of material he removed with a Dremel at Camp Perry.
 The present web page advertises that the Jagemann are compatible with several conversion units.
 A note about the ACE magazines. Ace made nearly all the magazines for Colt. When Colt dropped the Ace Conversion there was little market for them. The dies were worn and Metalform decided that reinvestment into new dies was not profitable and they would never get a ROI, thus they stopped manufacture.
 Another note . The owner/manager of Metalform has been a volunteer at Camp Perry pistol phase for several years. He has in the past given out a .45 magazine in the competitor package at Camp Perry. He has also sponsored the .45 matches at Camp Perry. We should be loyal to his product for those reasons alone. He also produces a quality product at better prices than his competition. He is also and active shooter.

Kermit Workman

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Age : 66
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.22 Magazine help - Page 2 Empty Re: .22 Magazine help

Post by Froneck 4/5/2021, 1:34 pm

I don't know why the mags were altered. I'm not sure if the mold was changed or the cut was made later. The radius cut shortening the lips seems to have a different texture than other surfaces on the mag. Might be possible to get them un-cut.
 For some reason it seems the barrel placement on the slide is very close to the locked-up location of the 45 ACP barrel. Yet the chamber loading location is farther back. Nor can I understand why the mag. lips were made shorter. BUT!!! I did not complete my conversion yet and when I get it to be a functioning conversion I may learn why all the others made the change! My first thought was to make the barrel mounting lower but when inserting magazines I seen that was not going to be an easy change. As it is the slide and frame are at the lowest which works for the .45 but being the .22 is smaller the mag. must bring the round up higher. So far I've copied the Nelson but moved the barrel back and made a 1911 type ejector modified to eject .22. Will not be long before I can test fire it and may find why others did what they did!
 I like Metalform Mags, Have quite a few of them. Too bad they got rid of the tooling for the .22 Ace, Might have sold it to triple K.

Froneck

Posts : 1029
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Age : 74

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