Zero 185jhp softer load?

Sure this is in here somewhere with similar issues...l went through tendonitis therapy last year from going too long with iron sights and heavier loads. Went back to 3.5 BE for all lead. Now I loaded up 4.6 BE for long line jacketed and immediately noticed injuries recurring.

I have the zero and the Remington 185 jkt bullets.

What would you load for long line that is softer shooting?

I also think irons vs scope makes a big difference in felt recoil. What say you?

Thanks in advance

4.0 BE with 185 jhp has shot on call for me at 50 yds out of several pistols. I've shot 3.8 BE with good results. Have never rested them, I shoot from hand and know whether they are grouping or not.
My 13 twist grouped 3.4 BE at 50.
Old shooters have to adapt
Jon

4.4 of WST works well for me, out of both my Ball and Wadcutter guns, with the Zero 185 JHP bullets.........

Are you going Atterbury, Bruce?

Ric

4.2 gr Clays for 725 ft/sec and no keyholing.  Two inch RR groups out of a redneck EIC gun.  12 and 19 lb springs are 100% reliable.

77 SMK 24 gr Varget Rem 7 1/2 

Just couldn't help myself. Good luck with the elbow. 

Best
Arthur

Thanks all, will try those.

I don't know anyone from NY going to afterburner.

Art, I'm running 69 noslers with 4895 at Forbes 300 next week, you coming?

Bruce 

I'm going to push the service pistol as hard as I can this year, maybe next year too. Camp Smith has electronic targets now, and the DCPA in Wappingers Falls stopped having pistol matches. Temptation to shoot service rifle again is growing.  
Have a great time. At 200 shoot what ever, but to 300 to 600 run at least the 77 SMK. 

Best regards, 
Arthur

I'm not sure that having a scope or dot does anything for recoil, in and of itself.
What they will do is allow you to more easily adjust your reloads to a much more manageable recoil impulse. Adjusting point of aim to point of impact more easily.
At least that where I'm at in the same journey it seems your on.
Good luck working this out.

DCPA IS having matches, May 2 is the first

Bad time to suggest it, due to low availability, but changing powders, can have a tremendous effect on felt recoil. I find WST loaded at similar velocity is much softer than BE, N310 or Clays. Possibly due to slower burn rate, thus a recoil impulse is spread out over a longer period. Don't know the science, only know what I feel. All Feelings Matter.

What is th OAL for the 185 jhp bullets?

The most accurate loads with Zero 185 JHP I tested were with 4.48gr of BE and 4.40 of N310.  This was out of 1911 with 9000Sc on slide.  3.6 - 4.0 BE were best out of two 1911 service pistols, with one liking 3.8 more while the other liked 3.6.  All loads had OAL 1.220" / WLP.  Testing was done at about 70 degrees day using RR.

AP

Bruce- ever try small pistol primers in .45ACP?
Wonder if the lower energy primer wouldn't soften the burn rate/felt recoil?

Hmmm....no

Having the same arm issues , I've been working on a reduced load. I also wanted to see the difference between my old stock bullets(.451 dia.) and recently received bullets at approx. .4525 dia. Loaded into TZZ92 once fired cases , trimmed to .890 , WLP primers , 1.195 OAL ,crimped to .470 , there's no measurable difference in group size from a Ransom Rest at 50 yards. The load of 3.8 grs N310 produces a 10 shot group of 3" vs a reliable 1.75" group with 4.1 grs. In other words , the price for a noticeable reduction in recoil , pain and suffering is to go from an X ring group to a 10 ring group. As Jon posted recently , old guys have to adapt. TZZ cases seem to have less capacity than US commercial or military cases , so equivalent loads in US cases might have to go up 1 or 2 tenths. I've gone as low as 3.6 and 3.7 for the short line , but they won't quite hold the 10 ring at 50. Incidently , I loaded up a bunch in TZZ cases of assorted years and an unknown # of firings for subjective recoil testing , etc.. They shot the same group size out of the rest as the selected, once fired ,trimmed cases. A lot was posted here a while ago when it was discovered that recent production Zero bullets were larger in dia. than expected. I found no difference in accuracy , report, primer appearance , perceived recoil , ejection distance or anything else. I guess the next step is to get a 1 in 13 twist barrel fitted to see if I can get any lower with acceptable accuracy.

I suspect that slow stuff, for most people, is harder to shoot.

Barrel time increase allows TIMs. trigger induced motions.

By going to a slower powder, like WST, l got the reduction in snap that l wanted

bruce martindale wrote:I suspect that slow stuff, for most people, is harder to shoot.

Barrel time increase allows TIMs. trigger induced motions.

By going to a slower powder, like WST, l got the reduction in snap that l wanted

What charge of WST?

4.0 - 4.3 gr WST is a "relatively" soft feeling load with 185 JHPs in .45 acp. (I like 3.8 - 4.0 with 200 - 185 gr LSWC) Accuracy really improves at 4.2+ with 185 JHPs .  At 4.3 - 4.6 the accuracy quite good. I have never loaded beyond 4.6 with 185 JHPs, but I have heard others claim they go as high as 4.8 - 5.0 with 185 JHPs and WST.

Slow stuff, as in 600-650 fps range with any powder, is almost in the air pistol velocity. Getting 700-750 may be much easier for most shooters to use.

Allgoodhits wrote:4.0 - 4.3 gr WST is a "relatively" soft feeling load with 185 JHPs in .45 acp. (I like 3.8 - 4.0 with 200 - 185 gr LSWC) Accuracy really improves at 4.2+ with 185 JHPs .  At 4.3 - 4.6 the accuracy quite good. I have never loaded beyond 4.6 with 185 JHPs, but I have heard others claim they go as high as 4.8 - 5.0 with 185 JHPs and WST.

I just finished testing some WST/Zero JHP loads and agree that WST has a softer feel than N310. It may not be a lot, but I think the cumulative effect on worn out tendons ,etc. may make a difference , especially trying to stretch an 1800 into a 2700 , or a Camp Perry situation where you're shooting several consecutive days. 4.2 grains was more accurate than 4.1 and put 20 consecutive shots into 2.5" , 15 of which would have been Xs. Unlike reduced N310 , the accuracy was good along with the softer recoil. It's a winner , thanks for the suggestion.

I run 4.4 of WST at the long line and 4.2 at the short..works well

Does anyone have test data for the zero 185 JHP using W-231?  
 is the WST 4.3-4.4 a good place as a starting point ?   using WLP primers .  469-470 crimp?

Plunker wrote:Does anyone have test data for the zero 185 JHP using W-231?  
 is the WST 4.3-4.4 a good place as a starting point ?   using WLP primers .  469-470 crimp?

-starting around 5.0 grs. 231 is an excellent load. 231 didn't seem to do as well loaded lighter, WLP and possibly a tighter crimp are helpful. Recoil is about like factory target 185s , WST starting at 4.2 feels much softer

Thanks Richard.

Late to the party, but 4.4 grains of Green Dot is 775 FPS with a 185.  Same velocity as ASYM .45 ACP Match ammo.  Very gentle and sounds like you can go slower.

I've read that Green Dot can spike fast.  I have loaded it up to +P velocities while working up loads.  I'll have to post that info from my laptop.