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Gunsmith question - Roll trigger "feel" vs trigger travel

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Gunsmith question - Roll trigger "feel" vs trigger travel Empty Gunsmith question - Roll trigger "feel" vs trigger travel

Post by DaveT2R6 5/4/2021, 8:21 am

I have a question for the group, especially the gunsmiths, about length of a short / medium / long roll trigger. How far does the trigger move (after take-up, before the break) for the different rolls?  

I have been trying my hand at fitting hammers and sears with the TR sear jig. Measured trigger travel on a few hammer/sear combinations and came up with 0.012", 0.015", 0.027" and 0.030".  These numbers are as accurate as can be with a dial caliper and the frame in a vise.  Could be +/- a couple thousandths.

0.030" of trigger travel feels like a mile long - don't like it. (maybe that's way long even for a long roll?)  Sight alignment during dry fire seems better/more stable with the shorter trigger movement; maybe that's from my trigger control/grip fundamentals.

This has been educational (sometimes puzzling) experiment, but maybe better left to the professionals.  I would like to know what to ask for if 0.012 to 0.015" has the 'feel' I like.  Or perhaps these measurements are out of range for anything a professional would find acceptable.  

Thanks for any input.

Dave

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Post by kc.crawford.7 5/5/2021, 7:19 am

Dave, I believe the problem you're going to find / have is that trigger feel is a perception.  What you call a short roll may be a long roll for someone else.  I've had many customers that wanted me to do trigger work and they stated their gunsmith put a "long" roll on the trigger.  It wasn't, but that's not the point.  A trigger is an individual thing.  YOU'RE the only one that has to like it.  While trying to measure the actual movement of the trigger in the receiver could be an indicator.  I don't believe it would be a standard that could be used to determine how long a roll you have.
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Post by Merick 5/5/2021, 11:04 am

DaveT2R6 wrote:
0.030" of trigger travel feels like a mile long

Shoot a double action revolver for a bit, should clear that perception right up.


Seriously though if someone had the drawings and the math ability they should be able to math out what trigger travel converts to in hammer hooks height to sear engagement (primary less relief).

I'm working on EIC points so my trigger specs are more or less boxed in by rule.  This led me to experiments that showed trigger length of pull had more of an effect on a scatt trace, which is entirely dependent on how your specific hand matches up to the ergonomics of your gun and adjusted by swapping trigger lengths and msh.

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Post by Froneck 5/21/2021, 11:01 am

I agree with KC! Having done trigger jobs for my self and others the word "Roll" means different movement to different shooters, what one calls long might be short to another. Same with crisp, quite a few shooter had me feel their super crisp trigger but it felt like a roll to me. You need to determine what is good for you experiment with different types. For advise I suggest Master or High Master shooter! Those guys been there and done that and can offer quality advise. Getting information from a shooter that just shot time fire 100-9x and is not happy with his score is better than someone that managed to get 8 hits on the target and it's his personnel best! However he is the guy that will try to tell you how to shoot 100-10X. While the 100-9X shooter will be silent until you ask him.


Last edited by Froneck on 5/21/2021, 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by zanemoseley 5/21/2021, 11:06 am

Doug Hall advertised a service where he could supposedly measure the travel and trigger feel mechanically so that he could recreate a 1911 trigger over and over again. He might still offer this.

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Post by Wobbley 5/21/2021, 11:23 am

zanemoseley wrote:Doug Hall advertised a service where he could supposedly measure the travel and trigger feel mechanically so that he could recreate a 1911 trigger over and over again. He might still offer this.
He does as of March of this year.
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Post by james r chapman 5/21/2021, 11:58 am

zanemoseley wrote:Doug Hall advertised a service where he could supposedly measure the travel and trigger feel mechanically so that he could recreate a 1911 trigger over and over again. He might still offer this.

Has so for several years!
Quite interesting to actually see the tracing of the trigger movement.
I think it’s piezo sombrero or something like that!


https://www.dheco.com/services.html
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Post by Froneck 5/21/2021, 12:31 pm

He had the equipment at Perry 2019. Interesting gadget. Only problem is you need the trigger you like to be able to duplicate it. So the trigger that feels great has to be checked before it changes so he can record it. Other problem is knowing what trigger you want and doing what ever needed to return it to the "Liked" condition is another.

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Post by Vociferous 5/22/2021, 5:05 am

At Perry in 2018, Doug Hall used his computer point plot program to measure my crunchy, gritty old trigger.  He pulled out a pencil and piece of paper and drew a schematic to explain the condition of it:  It was a an unhappy face.
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Post by Vociferous 5/22/2021, 5:17 am

Buy a KC roll trigger and try it out!  I have four of 'em.  Took a class from KC and now I do my own trigger jobs.
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