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Converting crisp trigger to roll trigger

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Converting crisp trigger to roll trigger Empty Converting crisp trigger to roll trigger

Post by coolarrowjavs 5/9/2021, 1:46 pm

Is it possible for a gunsmith who built up and accurized my 1911 to change it from the crisp break he put on it to a roll trigger break.

Would that be something I could send back to them for modification?

I am brand new to the bullseye game and still learning a lot, I rushed in and ordered a hardball gun and didn’t know the difference from roll trigger to crisp and the different camps of opinions people fall in to.

In Service Rifle we don’t have this type of challenge and difference in opinion about triggers. It’s two stage, and the stage you want a tight glass break.

So figured tight glass break would be the same principle here.

Thoughts?

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Post by james r chapman 5/9/2021, 1:50 pm

Doug Hall or KC Crawford
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Post by kc.crawford.7 5/9/2021, 2:16 pm

Talk to whoever you had build the gun.
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Post by coolarrowjavs 5/9/2021, 2:27 pm

He’s on vacation right now or I would.
Just looking for answers and philosophies on the subject.

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Post by chiz1180 5/9/2021, 2:39 pm

Crisp vs roll in a 1911 trigger is hammer and sear interaction. Changing/adjusting these parts is relatively simple in concept, making them work well and consistently is where the art form takes over.


Last edited by chiz1180 on 5/9/2021, 2:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarification)

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Post by zanemoseley 5/9/2021, 5:31 pm

Since you sound very new to bullseye I would recommend you shoot the pistol with the crisp trigger for a bit. They're not one style fits all so you might find it suits you well.

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Post by jimsteele 5/10/2021, 7:09 am

I had KC Crawford put a roll trigger in my .22 because I wanted to see if I liked one (many experienced shooters do).
I did not like it so much, in fact my preference would be a trigger that does not move at all. It would fire from pressure alone, not movement.
  So I bought a hammer/sear set, and fitted it myself. I enjoyed the experience, and it works OK, though certainly not professional quality. And I still have KC's fitted trigger set to reinstall if I want to.
   This option might work for you...Jim

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Post by rich.tullo 5/10/2021, 12:59 pm

I like a short roll , long roll is not for everyone.
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Post by coolarrowjavs 5/10/2021, 8:39 pm

Yeah I know I'm super green to all of this. My background is in Service Rifle, 14 points in towards DR. I'm going to see how far this thing takes me, which I'm sure is pretty far. I can make a better informed decision after I've fired some thousands of rounds. I just get jumpy that I made a hasty decision. The gunsmith I went with is very much a crisp trigger man, had very strong thoughts on it when I asked. I'm sure there's been many an argument over crisp vs roll triggers, I had no idea about any of it because this debate doesn't happen in Service Rifle.
Thanks for everyone's input! I'm sure I'll be asking another newbie type question soon haha.

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Post by chiz1180 5/10/2021, 8:52 pm

I started with a longer roll very early on, and have stuck with it, though some of my guns have a shorter roll now. I shoot a roll much better than crisp. That said both can do the job, but in my experience the approach is slightly different.

With a roll you can feel the movement of the hammer and the sear, the key is to keep the trigger moving as you center up the sights on the center of the target. Ask people at matches if they have a roll trigger, most if not all would let you dryfire to get an idea of the feel.

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Post by Dr.Don 5/11/2021, 8:40 am

KC sells a nice roll trigger kit.  You can drop the parts in and see for yourself if you like it.  If you don't alter the parts they are a pretty easy re-sale on here.
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Post by Froneck 5/20/2021, 12:06 pm

I shoot a short roll, long roll is OK but it slows me down for rapid fire plus short roll works for slow fire. My roll as described in other topics is what I call and up hill roll similar to pulling on a spring. Think of a fish scale, one pound moves the pointer one graduation, 2 pounds moves the pointer an equal amount to next graduation and so on. I don't like what I call a down hill roll, somewhat logarithmic that is if the above fish scale with one pound moved to first graduation the 2 pounds to second but the distance traveled is 1/2, 3 pounds will have a 1/4 distance movement though it's not as bad as the type that when the trigger starts to move the required pressure lowers, somewhat a crisp with lots of over travel before hammer falls. In reality there is no such thing as crisp, it's simply the same as previously mentioned only with less over travel. It is often said crisp requires .020" of hammer hook engagement and roll an additional .010", the trigger must move .020" just what more will .010 add?? Yeah, a crisp with longer over travel! However I did manage to create a crisp almost no movement release. Being stuck at Perry with a trigger that a gunsmith was to have made better but wasn't I butchered a hammer and sear having nothing more than a very fine diamond file. Hammer hook angle was wrong but resulted in an angle that would push the sear off but with sear spring pressure the sear would not move, as the trigger was pressed spring pressure on the sear was reduced so that hammer pushed the sear off and was released to fall. It worked, I shot great with it and refined it when I returned home! However after hearing a top shooter describe why he liked roll I realized I wanted roll too so started working on a roll trigger. Simply put my problem with crisp was in lets say Rapid Fire. I'm squeezing the trigger and nothing happening, I keep squeezing and still nothing, running out of time I jerk one into the 7 ring! Next shot I start thinking about trigger weight, the more I think about it the heavier it becomes but I manage to keep the remaining shots in the black, then begin the next string of 5 doing the same as before! With my desired roll  I feel the trigger moving, with short roll I know hammer will soon fall so I forget the trigger and concentrate on the sights! My scores improved quite a bit and in less that 1 year I went from Marksman to Master!
 So I think a shooter should begin to understand the types of triggers and what is best for him then find someone that can create the type trigger pull desired! In my case I had an entire machine shop available and purchased a pile of sears and hammers that were probably old GI parts and were cheap so I could experiment and yes I ruined quite a few hammer and sears in my attempt to create my desired roll! Having .22s made in Europe with double sears the sear weight is almost Zero. I think the Bikal is dam near zero, My Home made Bikal, AW93 and MatchGun not much more! So they are easy to adjust since all that is required in changing spring tension so that the trigger acts like a fish scale!

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