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Question about distance to target

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Question about distance to target Empty Question about distance to target

Post by mikemargolis Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:57 pm

setting up a 10m air pistol range in my basement.

Rules not clear (to me, anyway). I draw a line on the floor 10m away from the target face.

Do my feet, or the muzzle have to be behind the line?

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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by james r chapman Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:25 pm

Betting on 👣
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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by LenV Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:33 pm

Betting on belly.
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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by Wobbley Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:57 pm

The rules say “No portion of the shooter’s body may rest upon ot touch the ground forward of the firing line.”
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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by joy2shoot Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:48 am

Wobbley wrote:The rules say “No portion of the shooter’s body may rest upon or touch the ground forward of the firing line.”

Sounds like feet have to be behind firing line and that belly and arm can be forward of the firing line.

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Post by james r chapman Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:00 am

51 yds for Len!!
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Post by mikemargolis Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:53 am

Thanks everybody.

You guys are the best.

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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by LenV Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:21 am

james r chapman wrote:51 yds for Len!!
I resemble that insinuation Question about distance to target Dscf0324
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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by Froneck Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:18 am

Seem to me the guy to the left in cream colored jacket is leaning on the bench. That's a no no, being support!

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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by robert84010 Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:04 am

Froneck wrote:Seem to me the guy to the left in cream colored jacket is leaning on the bench. That's a no no, being support!
It would be nice to see match directors call these people out or at least mention the rule before the match starts. The "tactical lean" as I call it is much more common now than it used to be. Not touching the bench is one of the things that differentiates us from the Neanderthals.

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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by John Dervis Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:25 am

robert84010 wrote:
Froneck wrote:Seem to me the guy to the left in cream colored jacket is leaning on the bench. That's a no no, being support!
It would be nice to see match directors call these people out or at least mention the rule before the match starts. The "tactical lean" as I call it is much more common now than it used to be. Not touching the bench is one of the things that differentiates us from the Neanderthals.

I agree that a mention in the safety briefing would be a good idea but this is a hard violation to catch correctly because of the angle of view.  At Perry one year the block officer came over to our bench and told us that someone had told him that one of us was leaning on the bench.  I know I wasn't doing it and the other guy said he wasn't and he was actually pretty ticked off by this claim.  I will give the benefit of the doubt to whoever reported it.  Maybe it appeared like someone was touching the bench from their vantage point but I know I was no where near it.  It would probably take a line officer a couple of strings to make sure there is in fact a violation.

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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by LenV Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:45 am

John is right about hard to tell from an angle. The light on that range was very bright and directional. I have some pictures from that match that look like I am leaning on my ammo catcher. I know I wasn't but it sure made some black shadows. Here is one. No, I'm not touching...Question about distance to target Dscf0325
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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by Froneck Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:03 am

I don't think the ammo catcher would add much support nor do I think your using it. Same with the bench at Camp Perry, those benches in some cases barely support themselves!

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Post by chiz1180 Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:56 pm

One of the first matches I shot was indoor in the winter, temp was like 40-50F. Guy calling the line was upset that my sweatshirt (loose fitting) was touching the bench. Sometimes appearances can be deceiving, if something seemingly is becoming an issue adjust and move on.

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Post by Sa-tevp Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:01 pm

james r chapman wrote:51 yds for Len!!

49 yds for Ed Hall?
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Post by Jack H Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:23 pm

Froneck wrote:I don't think the ammo catcher would add much support nor do I think your using it. Same with the bench at Camp Perry, those benches in some cases barely support themselves!

I have seen a former champion blatantly and deliberately lean on the brass catcher.  The line caller, 10 feet away did nothing.  The match was one where any prize might have bought lunch.
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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by Ed Hall Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:56 am

Froneck wrote:I don't think the ammo catcher would add much support nor do I think your using it. Same with the bench at Camp Perry, those benches in some cases barely support themselves!
Touching your arm to any object will change its natural motion.

chiz1180 wrote:One of the first matches I shot was indoor in the winter, temp was like 40-50F. Guy calling the line was upset that my sweatshirt (loose fitting) was touching the bench. Sometimes appearances can be deceiving, if something seemingly is becoming an issue adjust and move on.
NRA Rulebook wrote:5.5 Firing Position - Standing, gun held in one hand only, the other being used in no way to support the gun; all portions of the shooter's clothing, body and gun clear of artificial support.
Should we be selective in which rules we enforce?

Sa-tevp wrote:
james r chapman wrote:51 yds for Len!!

49 yds for Ed Hall?
An even greater advantage? Thanks! Smile

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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by chiz1180 Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:20 am

Ed Hall wrote:
Froneck wrote:I don't think the ammo catcher would add much support nor do I think your using it. Same with the bench at Camp Perry, those benches in some cases barely support themselves!
Touching your arm to any object will change its natural motion.

chiz1180 wrote:One of the first matches I shot was indoor in the winter, temp was like 40-50F. Guy calling the line was upset that my sweatshirt (loose fitting) was touching the bench. Sometimes appearances can be deceiving, if something seemingly is becoming an issue adjust and move on.
NRA Rulebook wrote:5.5 Firing Position - Standing, gun held in one hand only, the other being used in no way to support the gun; all portions of the shooter's clothing, body and gun clear of artificial support.
Should we be selective in which rules we enforce?

Sa-tevp wrote:
james r chapman wrote:51 yds for Len!!

49 yds for Ed Hall?
An even greater advantage? Thanks! Smile
My point was it is possible to break a rule unintentionally. Specifically in my case the guy put his hand on my shoulder while I was shooting to get my attention, probably worse than my sweatshirt brushing the bench. The vast majority of people who shoot do NOT know the rules completely and only learn about certain rules when they get penalized for them. I see this commonly with new shooters, they unintentionally break a minor rule and then get yelled at by 3-4 guys on the line. If someone is breaking a minor rule how you approach telling them matters, if you break a rule unknowingly adjust and move on.

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Post by james r chapman Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:53 am

Like “GUN DOWN” in a .22 EIC match?
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Question about distance to target Empty Re: Question about distance to target

Post by Froneck Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:02 pm

I understand and agree with the rules! Bench at Perry remark was supposed to be funny, those benches at Perry will be quite stable when 2 gun boxes are on them especially some of the gun boxes have 10 guns and ammo for all of them. Yes I know it don't take much to support the hand and nothing should be used no matter how little the support.. Though some brass catchers I've seen wobble and are not very stable. The guy next to Len is definitely up against the bench and if the bench is anything like the bench at my club 10 guys pushing it will not move. If the brass catcher were allowed to have the hand or arm touch it soon there would some bringing catchers that would require 2 guys to lift it onto the bench! As for me I don't have a catcher, I do have a PicStik so I don't have to bend over to pick-up brass and a 2 gun box. Larger box stays in the trunk. Yeah I'm lazy, I bring to the line just enough stuff to shoot the match + a spare gun and mags.
 However I have seen some stupid support rules enforced, I would think the word in the rules Support should mean exactly that. If something so flimsy such as a shirt tail provides no support then why call it! Check it out is OK because if you don't someone will have an iron bar hidden. I have seen at Perry they made a guy cut-off a medical bracelet (little plastic band attached by the Hospital) it was so loose if he lifted his arm it slid to his elbow. What kind of support did it offer? Yes something like a leather strap 3 or 4" long with 2 buckles to tighten it on the wrist is support!!

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