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Legal in NJ/where to buy a Pardini

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Wobbley
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Legal in NJ/where to buy a Pardini Empty Legal in NJ/where to buy a Pardini

Post by asandel 7/2/2021, 8:07 am

New to the list and bullseye shooting..I've been shooting for a year now - S&W 41 with a holosun 507C-gr ..and want to step up...I live in NJ and I'm planing to get a Pardini SP .22.. I looked on the forbidden list of guns for NJ and the Pardini was not on it ..so I just want to make sure if someone knows this is correct...It looks like there is only two places to buy .. Pardini USA and Champions Choice... Anybody have any experiences with these two...also what's the difference with the models.. SPNew, SPBE5, Bullseye edition ..I even see a SP1...looks like the only difference is the weight according to the technical data chart... I don't know why it says marksmen on my profile ..im certainly not....thanks for you help in advance


Last edited by asandel on 7/2/2021, 1:44 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add thought)

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Post by james r chapman 7/2/2021, 8:14 am

5”, 6”,
.22, .32 acp, .32 S&W l

Either of those companies can tell you if it’s NJ legal
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Post by Froneck 7/2/2021, 8:28 am

I lived in NJ about 40 years ago but escaped to PA. Being you will have to have the gun sent to a licensed dealer in NJ you should be able to ask any dealer since the Pardini must be sent to them. They will have to complete the paperwork needed to transfer the gun to you so they will know if it is legal!

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Post by mspingeld 7/2/2021, 8:40 am

I had a Pardini in NJ. Bought in 2018, no problem (other than I didn't love the gun).

Where are you in NJ?

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Post by asandel 7/2/2021, 1:40 pm

Hi Mike.. I live in Cedar Grove.....Being new to this.. can you give me the reason you didn't love the pistol.. what do you shoot? ..the only other pistol I tried was a Walther GSP ... I liked I better than the S&W 41... I didn't try the Pardini .. nobody at the Hawthorne/Passic gun club has one to try... I know its not the best way to by a pistol, ...I was just relying on reviews/videos 
Thanks for you help,
Andy

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Post by mspingeld 7/2/2021, 1:53 pm

Hey Andy, First, let me say it's a beautifully made pistol and it's pretty much all you'll see at the Olympic pistol events.

I found it too front heavy, even after taking out the front weights. I'm currently shooting a Feinwerkbau AW93 and I have a Nelson conversion on a 1911 lower that I also like very much.

The quality of a 22 is in the eyes of the beholder. The criteria, in my humble opinion, are weight, balance and quality of trigger. Most 22's from Ruger & Buckmark up to the Pardini are accurate enough to take you to high master.

My club meets Tuesday evenings, 7 pm. Northern most exit off the Garden State (exit 172). About 45 minutes from you. You're welcome to come (as my guest) and try my FWB, conversion and one of our members shoots the Pardini. I'm sure he'll let you try that too.

Note: I'm Ohio bound for the Triple Crown (Cardinal, Canton & Camp Perry) so I won't be at the NJ range until the 20th. Let me know if you'd like to visit and play.

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Post by Tripscape 7/2/2021, 3:28 pm

Andy, I am from Fair Lawn, but sold my Pardini about a year or so ago. We may know each other if you are ever at the FPLRC. Firstly, you can definitely own one in NJ, obviously transfer via FFL. Secondly, you can find great combos for very fair prices used.  GB or forums.  Buy new if you want, they do not lose much value. Versions: old - non ribbed frame - good but no front weights, trigger not as adjustable as later versions, rear sight aperture not adjustable, if I know it right mags not interchangeable with newer versions unless adjusted. Nygord - 4 weight up front, trigger still not as adjustable. SP new - fully adjustable new trigger, better frame, 6 weights up front. SP bullseye 01 - new/additional dampening on the bolt. SP bullseye 02 - barrel encasing ribbed for scope mount, additional 6 inch barrel available. SP new + versions can interchange for 32 caliber. Feel: 6 inch barrel too heavy even with weight removed, though it weighs same as 5 inch with 4 weights. Reason must be length from the center. 5 inch is good, balances well and all. Trigger is obviously strongest point and reason for this gun. Grips are NOT comfortable for me and about a size smaller than marked. Grip tilt was not comfortable. They can be shimmed back or forward for vertical tilt, but they never felt comfy. All in all after setting it up to my liking I felt it never gave me anything better than 1911 + Nills and conversion. In fact 1911 felt more comfortable.  It was sold. To each his own though. 
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Post by CrankyThunder 7/3/2021, 8:03 am

Dear Asandel:

While I own and shoot a pardini and am one of the biggest pardini promoter, you really have to shoot a number of firearms to determine which one is for you.  I own a number of high quality 22 lr bullseye pistols and they each have their own unique personality.  

I would recommend that you take up the offer from your fellow new jerseyian and take advantage of his offer to try out a number of different firearms.  it is effort well spent.  

Personally, I really wanted a FWB AW 93 simply because it was similar to the Russian Baikal 35m I was shooting at the time.  When it came time to get a new pistol, the FWB was not available whereas Pardini came out with their new bullseye edition.  So I got the Pardini but wondered if I should of waited for a FWB to become available.  

Couple of years later I purchased a FWB and I have had lots of time to do a side by side comparison of them.  There is no question that I like the Pardini better.  

Realistically, now that I have a nice collection of bullseye pistols, and with the experience I have shooting them side by side, I could be happy with any one of them as long as they are reliable with no aliabi's.  

If you do determine that you want a Pardini, I would recommend the Pardini SP New bullseye edition with the 5 inch barrel.  I would shy away from the six inch barrel because the longer barrel is less forgiving of the normal shooter and I would also avoid the ported version simply because you do not need the ports and they will just add complexity to the cleaning process.  

If you ever get over here to Michigan, track me down and we can head to the range and you could try out a bunch of 22lr firearms 

Regards, 
Crankster
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Post by Froneck 7/3/2021, 10:30 am

Pardini is a good pistol, most high end European pistols are because they are designed for International competition. My son Adam said that when Ft.Benning hosted International competition 95 of 100 shooters would be shooting Pardini. Even the Russians are using Pardini! But all of the European guns have one drawback, the Grip angle. Yes it feels good! Don't get me wrong I have 4 of them, but I have my AW93 changed to 1911 grips and getting grips for my MatchGun printed to similar angle. International shooters primarily shoot one type match and need only one gun (probably others as back-up but they all are the same) A Free Pistol shooter will not be shooting Rapid Fire or Center Fire. Bullseye shooters can shoot 3 guns, most shoot 2, the .22 and .45. The desire to shoot one gun type is why the .22 conversion is popular! The AMU team can shoot any .22 they want, Pardini is in the arms room and is available but they use the Hammerli 208, I know Adam's 208 looked more like a 1911. The grip area was modified to accept 1911 grips.
 BTW if you click on profile, you can modify the information posted so you can change your classification.

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Post by asandel 7/5/2021, 2:06 pm

Wow… What a great forum… a big thank you for all your answers … I will definitely take MS up on his offer.. always a bit hard to try someone’s firearm…. I’m a lefty!!! I did try out a left handed walther gsp… liked it better than the 41… seemed more balanced?? I also tried a right handed Hammerli.. Next question ..Walther Gsp, Walther Ssp or pardini sp


Last edited by asandel on 7/5/2021, 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wrong name)

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Post by tray999 7/7/2021, 10:10 pm

asandel wrote:Wow… What a great forum… a big thank you for all your answers … I will definitely take MS up on his offer.. always a bit hard to try someone’s firearm…. I’m a lefty!!! I did try out a left handed walther gsp… liked it better than the 41… seemed more balanced?? I also tried a right handed Hammerli.. Next question ..Walther Gsp, Walther Ssp or pardini sp

I own a Walter GSP and a Pardini SP.   The Pardini is a better pistol for Bullseye for me because of the trigger.   I do sometimes use the GSP for EIC matches.....
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Post by 10sandxs 7/8/2021, 12:23 am

Any of the common 22s are capable of shooting high score.  I started with a 41, went to buckmark (long story), made master, went to conversions (currently nelson).  I bought my first walther gsp at cardinal one year ago almost to the day. It's older, but a great gun. I had an opportunity to shot a pardini a few months ago (I'm also a lefty).   Good gun, but if I had to buy a non conversion 22, I'd buy the walther gsp and use the extra monet to buy a case of ammo.

The bigger issue is the belief that you can "buy" points... you cant... none of the guns will make your out shots in. Might make it a bit easier to shoot in shots, but the weak link is almost always the person holding the gun.

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Post by Wobbley 7/8/2021, 12:55 am

10sandxs wrote:(Snip), I'd buy the walther gsp and use the extra monet to buy a case of ammo.

The bigger issue is the belief that you can "buy" points... you cant... none of the guns will make your out shots in. Might make it a bit easier to shoot in shots, but the weak link is almost always the person holding the gun.
If I had an extra Monet I’d by a truckload (or two) of ammo….
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Post by SilentAssassin 7/8/2021, 4:20 am

10sandxs wrote:Any of the common 22s are capable of shooting high score.
The bigger issue is the belief that you can "buy" points... you cant... none of the guns will make your out shots in. Might make it a bit easier to shoot in shots, but the weak link is almost always the person holding the gun.
This has been parroted over and over for years and years on rimfirecentral.

You see it constantly. " The gun will out shoot me."
This goes from the box stock ruger 10/22 with its barrel band still on it, to bone stock CZ's with 5 pound trigger pulls, to Browning A bolts, Browning T bolts, Henry Lever actions, and on and on and on.
Name a .22 rifle or handgun, and it has been said that it can outshoot its handler. If all of this were true , there would be no need for Anschutz, Kimber, Winchester 52, Remington 40x, Vudoo custom, 2500 X, Turbo actions, Shilin barrels, as well as many other fine barrel makers.
No need for Jewell triggers, or Timney, jard, Kidd, Volquartsen etc etc. Because if the gun can out shoot you, you might as well buy the cheapest rusted gun you find at any yard sale across America.

Because according to a many, any of them,,,,,,and I mean this literally MANY, any the guns will out shoot you.
The theory behind this is " I am a very good shot, I like my gun a lot, I bought the cheapest gun on sale at walmart so I can buy more ammo, and because it's my gun and I like it, it will outshoot me no matter how skilled in precision I am."
Which is simply not true. Not by a long shot.

People do not go from a buckmark, to a pardini because the buckmark can out shoot them.
People do not go from a Ruger 10/22 rifle from academys rack, to a 40x, win52, barreled Turbo action, to a 2500x barreled action, because the stock off the shelf 10/22 can out shoot them.
Name ANY 22 out there, it doesn't matter which one. It can have a cracked frame, a bad chamber, the barrel can be bent and have 4 to 6 choke points along the length of its bore............and someone out there has claimed it can out shoot them. And they have claimed this over and over for about 100 years. Or more.

It wasn't until we got the internet that we have seen this massive surge in these claims. But they have been here for centuries.

An inherently accurate 22 gun is an inherently accurate 22 gun, period. When your precise skills rise to a level beyond what you can accomplish in inherent accuracy, with a run of the mill box stock gun or something sub par, will the gun still out shoot you? The answer is no. And you will spend the money if you're into this type of accuracy level. And that WILL buy you points.

I'll leave this topic with this.
" How do you know if a gun can out shoot you, if you don't have a gun capable of out shooting you?"

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Post by DA/SA 7/8/2021, 5:11 am

SilentAssassin wrote:I'll leave this topic with this.
" How do you know if a gun can out shoot you, if you don't have a gun capable of out shooting you?"
It's dead simple!

Bench the gun at 50 yards and shoot a bunch of shots and note the group size.

Then stand up and hold it out there with one hand with no support and try it again. Until the groups match, you damn sure don't need to worry about the gun being an issue.

Pleas try it and post your targets here, and then maybe you'll understand the difference between bench rest shooting and the type of shooting discussed here on this forum and perhaps that statement will make more sense!  Smile
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Post by SilentAssassin 7/8/2021, 7:06 am

I was speaking in terms of , " Inherent accuracy"of the gun itself.

I can see your point here. And there is a, what if.

What if you and I are shooting off bags or a rest?
You use a , I don't know, a run of the mill 22 and I use a Pardini.
We're both shooting at 50 yards and my gun prints a 3/4 inch group or under, and yours prints a Three to Four inch group.
Even though neither us are standing and using one hand, " which gun would you rather practice with and/or take into competition?

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Post by 10sandxs 7/8/2021, 7:31 am

Well, "Silent Assassin", welcome to the forum. Seems I've struck a nerve. Im guessing your base discipline is rifle so I understand your comming at this from a very different perspective.

The x ring at 50 yards is about 1.6 inches while the 10 ring is about 3.5. This means you can have a gun that shoots almost 2 inches and still score a perfect 100-10x. Now many, ill venture, most of us have never cleaned a longline target much less shot a 100-10x at the long line. Clearly, the gun is not the weak link.

Did I include beat to crap, rusty old Walmart quality guns in my conversation? Not really as I made an assumption that any reasonably intelligent person would understand that were discussing reasonably new, reasonable quality reasonably maintained guns, not some extreme fringe example to prove a silly point.

Do people upgrade equipment as thier shooting matures? Absolutely. But not really for better accuracy. Perhaps they're looking for better triggers, better ergonomics, better ballance or any number of things.

My point was, and continues to be, is that the OP is shooting a very good, arguably top tier, gun with suitable optics. Thier scores will not magically improve significantly by buying a pardini/walther/mg2/aw93/etc.  

There a lot of marksman shooting pardinis, there a lot of masters shooting old high standards, m41s and 22 conversions. The guns (again assuming "reasonable") are NOT the limiting factor.

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Post by SilentAssassin 7/8/2021, 7:48 am

10sandxs wrote:Well, "Silent Assassin", welcome to the forum. Seems I've struck a nerve. Im guessing your base discipline is rifle so I understand your comming at this from a very different perspective.


There a lot of marksman shooting pardinis, there a lot of masters shooting old high standards, m41s and 22 conversions. The guns (again assuming "reasonable") are NOT the limiting factor.

No no, not a struck nerve.
Hopefully I haven't offended you.

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Post by DA/SA 7/8/2021, 8:11 am

I too was assuming fairly reasonably accurate .22 target pistols with my above post.

I have no disagreement whatsoever that a person my shoot one pistol better than another of similar accuracy due to ergonomic and or trigger issues.

Pretty much the only .22 target pistol I have shot is my own Marvel, and I bought that for it's accuracy so it would pretty much take the gun out of the equation. So I understand the need for a decent gun in order to gain confidence in your shooting. 

I did put a few rounds through a 41 once and couldn't hit a damn thing with it due to it's size. I have large hands and had to contort my finger to operate the trigger. That's pretty much the reason for the Marvel, as the 1911 is fairly adjustable to suit different hands. If I could have the trigger up where the front of the trigger guard is, I'd be pretty happy!
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Post by Allgoodhits 7/8/2021, 9:17 am

My .02 would be to allocate your resources, time and money as follows.

Serious discussions, lessons or training with someone like a Brian Zins, Jon Shue, and a few others. Not just a good shooter, correction, great shooter, but also one who can articulate training to your experience level. Also note a great instructor, need not be a great shooter, but most are, or at one time, were.

Trigger. The above will discuss the manipulation of the trigger, but now I am talking about a gun with a quality trigger. Get a trigger job, or find a gun with a good trigger.

With proper understanding of what it takes and correct manipulation of trigger, then spend 10-30 minutes a day dry firing. IMO, the trigger press can be the eraser! It can erase the desired outcome of the best gun, best ammo, perfect sight alignment and sight picture in an instant. Learn the trigger press! No, master the trigger press. It is the interface between the brain and the mechanical device we call a firearm. The best shooters, have the best trigger control. That is why they can borrow a gun, and beat you with it. They know how to pull/press a trigger.

Live fire to confirm that your shot process and dry fire are honest. Adjust as needed. Live fire should yield learning something. Learning that what you had been doing is working, or that something needs to change. After each live fire, what did you learn? 

After you have digested the above, then consider was to make the outcomes better. It may be in better quality ammo, or better quality gun. As long as your gun is reliable and has a good trigger, it probably is, as has been previously stated, good enough to shoot high master scores.

Enjoy the quest!
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Post by toddcfii 7/8/2021, 6:37 pm

Algoodhits
Great primer on how to be a better shooter.

I want to take exception with two things from some of the previous posts.
1.  You can’t buy points. Untrue. I did it. Went from a Marvel Conversion to a Matchguns and improved my scores from low sharpshooter to high expert in 22. I will admit my 45 has suffered probably because the two guns feel less alike now.
2. As long as the gun shoots better than you then it doesn’t matter. Mathematically I don’t see how that could be true. If a Master is capable of mostly 10s and Xs at 50 yards and occasional 9s with a perfect gun, then she is capable of a group of say 5 inches. With a gun that shoot 1/2 inch groups that would be a 5 1/2 inch group. Therefore they are going to get some 8s. And those 8s are more likely than 10s because the circles have more area as we move out because area is based on the radius squared. Now hand that master a 3 inch gun and then can get some 7s.

3. The same is even more true for the lower classifications. Take a Marksman who can hold them all in the 7 at 50yards with a perfect gun. Hand them a 3 inch gun and guess what? Some zeros!  So their score drops 7 points for their 3 inch gun for each one that was on the outside of their group and a Master might only lose 2 points with their 3 inch gun.

So I would say based on math that a Marksman will benefit more (in score) from an accurate gun versus a Master.  And this the argument I don’t need a gun that shoots better than me is mathematically not correct.
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Post by 10sandxs 7/8/2021, 7:55 pm

Toddcfii,

A few comments. Your making the assumption that a 5" hold coupled with a 3"group would put the shot as far out as possible. This is not typically the case. There are two probabilities to deal with, actually 3. 1) what is the direction the shot gets from the inaccuracy of the gun,  2) what is the magnitude of the "outness" of the shot imparted by the gun, 3) where on the target was the shot released by the shooter. 

I'll use two extremes as examples.
Example 1 - probability 1= 3 o'clock, probability 2= maximum "outness", probability 3= 3 oclock.  This puts the shot centered on the 8 ring, not in the 7 ring.

Example 2- probability 1= 6 o'clock, probability 2= maximum "outness", probability 3= 3 oclock (opposite of the gun direction). this puts the shot centered on the X ring.

Both outcomes have an equal chance of happening so there are times when a "bad" gun can help your score, though, obviously, I wouldn't expect this to be the rule.  

Another point, perhaps I should have made earlier. The inaccuracy from the gun, say 3" only results in 1.5"past the shooters 5" hold which keeps all shots firmly in the 8 ring. Assuming random shot release and bullet position from the gun, the probability is still very high that the shot will be a very strong nine or better. To get an 8, all the errors need to go in the same direction, which doesn't happen often.  How often do you roll three dice and have the same number come up on all three? Yes it happens, but rarely. Same when talking about superimposing probability rings on top of each other.

Take home message, even with a 3" gun and a 9 ring hold capability, the 7s come from you, not the gun. And it doesn't matter what class your in. A three inch gun will basically shoot no worse than one ring lower than your hold area.

Make sense???


Last edited by 10sandxs on 7/8/2021, 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by 10sandxs 7/8/2021, 7:58 pm




No no, not a struck nerve.
Hopefully I haven't offended you.
I have NEVER in my LIFE taken a firm stance in opposition to someone else where I came off as overly agressive... (said with the thickest sarcasm I can muster ;-) )

We're good, no offense from my side

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Post by 10sandxs 7/8/2021, 8:18 pm

My apologies Asandel, we've not only hijacked your thread looks like we're holding it ransom...

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Post by toddcfii 7/8/2021, 8:41 pm

Also my apologies. Threadjack! I will post some of these math and accuracy thoughts in the fundamentals discussion later. To your question though. I have a Pardini and love it! I shoot much better with it than my Marvel conversion. Although I like that gun too. I also have a Matchguns and shoot even better with it. But I feel overall the Pardini is a better gun for most people as the Matchguns takes some getting used to and there have been some quality control issues. I think a newer shooter who can afford a nice gun should buy a Pardini or similar. It will make tour scores improve in all likelihood and you won’t have to switch guns later on. Plus Italian guns are cool!
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