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Range Officer Discontinued

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BE Mike
James Hensler
jaws4316
10sandxs
Fotomaniac
inthebeech
BJR
Michael C
Logan186
Allgoodhits
Jon Eulette
HogCommander
Orpanaut
SmokinNJokin
rich.tullo
DA/SA
OldShooter43
Jack H
Wobbley
chiz1180
msmith44
Merick
SingleActionAndrew
zanemoseley
kc.crawford.7
james r chapman
Joe Morgan
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Range Officer Discontinued - Page 2 Empty Range Officer Discontinued

Post by Joe Morgan 7/3/2021, 6:41 am

First topic message reminder :

Now that Springfield Armory has discontinued the Range Officer line, is there a recommendation for a different model or brand of beginner 1911?

https://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series-handguns/1911-range-officer-handguns/

Maybe something new is coming down the pike?

Joe Morgan

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Post by Jon Eulette 7/21/2021, 1:18 pm

Can’t hard fit a SS pistol. It will increase likelihood of galling and will eventually gall. SS is also softer than carbon steel so they don’t hold up as long. Carbon slide and SS receiver do well together; dissimilar metals.
Jon
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Post by Allgoodhits 7/21/2021, 1:44 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Can’t hard fit a SS pistol. It will increase likelihood of galling and will eventually gall. SS is also softer than carbon steel so they don’t hold up as long. Carbon slide and SS receiver do well together; dissimilar metals.
Jon
Doesn't Accuracy X use SS exclusively for their 1911 single stack builds? I would think it would be hard to argue that they are not tight guns?  I have three, they are all SS frames and slides. All 3 of mine are very tight, reliable and very accurate. None of those are Accurailed. I do have a Caspian in SS which is railed and I have  carbon steel gun which is railed. Both of those are quite tight as well. I am surprised that more BE guns are not Accurailed.  If one feels SS has a fitting concern, Accurail it.

Someone mentioned Ruger 1911s. Their "Doug Koenig" line are very good guns, right out of the box.

Martin
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Post by Jon Eulette 7/21/2021, 2:11 pm

Steve does use a higher grade of SS, but I have seen them gall. I would never hard fit a barrel to one. 
Jon
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Post by Logan186 7/21/2021, 2:22 pm

Ruger says they use 416 SS which is hardened.  So actually that and a 4140 Carbon steel slide will be approximately the same hardness.
The 4140 purchased in a pre-hardened condition will be in the low to mid 30 range Rockwell C and the 416 can easily get to that point.
And yes this comes from my day job.  I do not know how the "Hard Fit" will come in to play.  But Kart barrels are carbon steel so wouldn't that help

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Post by Wobbley 7/21/2021, 2:35 pm

Hardness, per se, doesn’t have much impact whether SS galls or not.  What matters is the two grades of SS involved.  416 vs 416 there’s a high likelihood of galling.  416 vs 17-4, or 15-5 or 440B there is less likelihood of galling.  300 series vs most SS and galling is probable. .  Most barrels are made of 416.   So I’d opt for a 440 frame, 17-4 slide with those combos and fit accordingly.  And I’d keep it lubricated very well.
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Post by Jon Eulette 7/21/2021, 2:40 pm

Hard fit barrel forces slide rails up against frame rails. They gall. Upper barrel lugs are hard on slide lugs. Barrel hood hard on breech face. I’ve seen SS frame feed ramp get eaten away from jacketed hollow points. Carbon frame and slide can handle it. In my 30 years of building pistols SS is the enemy when used for both frame and slides or just the slide.
Majority (99%) of HM won’t use SS for a build. There’s a reason.
Jon
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Post by Michael C 7/21/2021, 4:03 pm

Jon, would meloniting help with stainless steel? Just thinking out loud, and remember reading that it hardens the surface. I could be totally wrong too.

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Post by Orpanaut 7/21/2021, 5:00 pm

Would a Springfield Armory Ronin with a stainless frame and a blued slide be suitable for accurizing?

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Post by Jon Eulette 7/21/2021, 5:04 pm

Michael C wrote:Jon, would meloniting help with stainless steel?  Just thinking out loud, and remember reading that it hardens the surface.  I could be totally wrong too.  
There are several good Coatings out there that would make the stainless part be more suitable.
Jon
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Post by Jon Eulette 7/21/2021, 5:05 pm

Orpanaut wrote:Would a Springfield Armory Ronin with a stainless frame and a blued slide be suitable for accurizing?
yep
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Post by BJR 7/21/2021, 5:40 pm

Jon,
I have a stainless Springfield 1911. Would Black Nitrite be a suitable coating for a stainless frame and slide bullseye 1911?

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Post by rich.tullo 7/21/2021, 8:34 pm

BJR wrote:Jon,
I have a stainless Springfield 1911. Would Black Nitrite be a suitable coating for a stainless frame and slide bullseye 1911?
Yes Black Nitrite is by far the best coating for frame both in terms of increasing harness, lubricity and protection from the elements. The only problem with Black Nitrite is it applied very hot and it almost heat treats the steel, so your build must be spot on.
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Post by inthebeech 7/27/2021, 6:27 am

[quote="Jon Eulette"]Can’t hard fit a SS pistol. It will increase likelihood of galling and will eventually gall. SS is also softer than carbon steel so they don’t hold up as long. Carbon slide and SS receiver do well together; dissimilar metals.
Jon[/quote]

Well that’s it then. Now I’m definitely not spending four thousand dollars for a stainless accuracy x. Now if they were properly named “X Accuracy” I might think differently. 
:twisted:

If I didn’t already have my RO, I might hold out a bit to see if they intend to fill the gap by bringing back the Trophy Match.
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Post by Fotomaniac 7/30/2021, 9:54 am

Meanwhile AccuracyX continues to build stainless steel championship winning pistols at a record pace with ZERO issues for over 10 years…jus sayin’.

https://www.facebook.com/344730025561939/posts/4662731360428429/

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Post by 10sandxs 8/10/2021, 7:38 am

Fotomaniac wrote:Meanwhile AccuracyX continues to build stainless steel championship winning pistols at a record pace with ZERO issues for over 10 years…jus sayin’.

https://www.facebook.com/344730025561939/posts/4662731360428429/
Good marketing plans work...

Accurate guns aren't a mystery to build, smith's have been doing it for decades. But there's more more a gun than raw mechanical accuracy. Accuracy x makes a good product, but its also the new kid on the block and lots of people want "new"... 

That said, unless the gun is going to be coated (DLC, Nitride, hard chrome) I don't care for stainless either,  and if your coating it anyway,  why not use carbon???

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Post by inthebeech 8/13/2021, 6:58 am

Both gas and plasma nitriding, if done properly, involve taking the base material up to temperatures that will fully anneal them, i.e. remove any hardness from previous processes.  It doesn’t really matter since the surface is now up over Rc 70. You just will no longer have the original hardnesses beneath this nitride hard coat, that you had before the nitriding. You can tell the nitrider to stay below 4xxx annealing temps but you will loose hardness and depth of hardness. To get good hardness and depth, nitriding will need to take your parts up to 1,100F which will give you dead soft steel beneath the hard skin.
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Post by 10sandxs 8/13/2021, 3:05 pm

"Nitriding" and metallic nitride containing films are not the same processes...  nitriding is incorporating nitrogen onto the crystal structure of the existing base metal, no additional material is added (except nitrogen).  this can also be done with salt bath nitriding which I think (but could be wrong) is the most common process

Plasma vapor deposition (PVD) coatings were devised to reduce the process temp of surface coating.  Titanium. Nitride (TiN) and chrome nitride (CrN) can be deposited at 750f, diamond like carbon can be deposited at 400f. Hard chrome is slightly above ambient if memory serves.

I believe the annealing temp for 4100 type steels is in the 1600f range so hardness loss for pvd coated steel is minimal

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Post by Wobbley 8/13/2021, 3:39 pm

While the annealing temp is 1600, the TEMPERING temp is variable depending on what properties you want.  For a 750F PVD example process, that would be about the minimum tempering temperature.   That’s for 4140…. For stainlesses, it’s alloverdamplace….
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Post by jaws4316 10/27/2021, 6:04 am

I just bought a very lightly used Range Officer's Target model from the Cabela's gun library. Probably paid too much at $900 but it's my first handgun and there isn't much available here at the local gun dealers. Also, seems like at the moment, you can't even order anything new. Anyway I think I'm going to be very happy with it. Hoping to take delivery this week sometime, and I can't wait to get out to the range and see what it will do.

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Post by jaws4316 10/27/2021, 6:11 am

Orpanaut wrote:How does the Ruger SR1911 Target compare with the SA Range Officer?  Externally, aside from being made of stainless steel, it looks very similar.

I believe Ruger machines their frames and slides from billet steel bar stock. SA Range Officer models are made from forged steel. BTW, not all Range Officer models are stainless. Mine that I just bought has a dull gray parkerized finish.

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Post by James Hensler 10/27/2021, 6:14 am

Jon Eulette wrote:Can’t hard fit a SS pistol. It will increase likelihood of galling and will eventually gall. SS is also softer than carbon steel so they don’t hold up as long. Carbon slide and SS receiver do well together; dissimilar metals.
Jon
Jon they have changed the Metallurgy of today’s Stainless. After they losses up install Accurails and it’s as tight as any I have ever shot.
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Post by BE Mike 10/27/2021, 8:38 am

jaws4316 wrote:
Orpanaut wrote:How does the Ruger SR1911 Target compare with the SA Range Officer?  Externally, aside from being made of stainless steel, it looks very similar.

I believe Ruger machines their frames and slides from billet steel bar stock. SA Range Officer models are made from forged steel. BTW, not all Range Officer models are stainless. Mine that I just bought has a dull gray parkerized finish.
Ruger SR1911's, I believe, have investment cast frames and forged slides.
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Post by 10sandxs 10/27/2021, 8:42 am

Ruger did make investment casting possible in the firearms industry... dont see why they would change that now

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Post by bihammond 10/31/2021, 9:21 pm

jaws4316 wrote:I just bought a very lightly used Range Officer's Target model from the Cabela's gun library.

@jaws4316 did you get the one out of Mitchell, SD? ‘Cause I’m eyeing that one right now.

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Post by Jon Eulette 10/31/2021, 10:51 pm

James Hensler wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote:Can’t hard fit a SS pistol. It will increase likelihood of galling and will eventually gall. SS is also softer than carbon steel so they don’t hold up as long. Carbon slide and SS receiver do well together; dissimilar metals.
Jon
Jon they have changed the Metallurgy of today’s Stainless. After they losses up install Accurails and it’s as tight as any I have ever shot.
I’ve gotten an A X to gall ;(
It’s definitely not CS.
Mixing SS with CS is ok. I’m firm believer in hard lock up. But if you wanna shoot full SS more power to you. In the middle of a full SS build now…
Jon
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