Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Camp Atterbury 2021?

+23
SteveT
Rotwang
Lightfoot
jmdavis
BE Mike
javaduke
Joe Morgan
chiz1180
Robuc
john bickar
Al
Schaumannk
xman
Wobbley
Danehogle
radjag
-TT-
TonyH
Multiracer
straybrit
weber1b
james r chapman
Orpanaut
27 posters

Page 4 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by Orpanaut Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Is there anyone out there who can share some impressions from the NRA National Matches at Camp Atterbury?

I would love to go see for myself but I haven't been able to take the time off from work that would be required to shoot both Perry and Atterbury.  At best I might be able to go look around on Friday afternoon. 

Specifically, I'd like to know about:

1) Range conditions - What's it like to shoot a match there?  Is it the sort of place where you'd feel ready to shoot a personal best?

2) Lodging - What's the availability, cost, proximity?  If 600 shooters come next year, will there be places for them to sleep?

3) Food - What's available on base?  Off base?  

4) Recreation - Are there fun things to do after shooting, or for non-competing family members?

My expectation is that the NRA will just carry over the same modus operandi they've been using at Perry for years, so things should run fairly smoothly.  The catch, I imagine, is that they'll have to groom a new batch of local talent to fill out the lower ranks of the operation.

Orpanaut

Posts : 167
Join date : 2015-08-06

Back to top Go down


Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by Jon Eulette Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:55 pm

john bickar wrote:What direction does the firing line face?
Down range 😂
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

Posts : 3382
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Jack H, john bickar, Allen Barnett, chopper and lakemurrayman like this post

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by james r chapman Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:25 pm

lol! lol! lol! lol!
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 5241
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 72
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by john bickar Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:31 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:
john bickar wrote:What direction does the firing line face?
Down range 😂

Jon, if I wanted your opinion, I'd give it to you.

Twisted Evil
john bickar
john bickar

Posts : 1756
Join date : 2011-07-09
Location : Menlo Park, CA

Allen Barnett and lakemurrayman like this post

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by chiz1180 Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:53 pm

South facing range based off pictures and approximate time of shooting.

chiz1180

Posts : 465
Join date : 2019-05-29

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by jmdavis Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:59 pm

The rifle ranges are south facing. I don't know about this new pistol range.
jmdavis
jmdavis

Posts : 1406
Join date : 2012-03-24
Location : Virginia

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by james r chapman Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:13 am

I’d say south by the shadows

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 6803e010
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 5241
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 72
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by radjag Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:52 am

A bunch of us stood on the range on Monday with our cell phone compasses wobbling trying to figure out the exact orientation. According to my Chinese made phone it is facing just slightly east of south. Or was that west of south? It is close to almost anyway.

radjag

Posts : 1080
Join date : 2017-03-23
Age : 65
Location : Oregon

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by SteveT Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:26 am

Pistol range faces SSW. In the morning the firing line is completely shaded. In the early afternoon the sun shines on the front 2-3 feet of the concrete pad (and tables this year). I heard there is a plan to move the target line so the firing line can be back from the front edge.

This Google image was taken before the range was built, but the firing line parallels the road. And they were shooting full auto 50BMG on the next range to the west today.
Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Untitl10
SteveT
SteveT

Posts : 756
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Illinois

https://sites.google.com/site/sdturner/shooting

radjag likes this post

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by Orpanaut Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:41 am

It sounds like the issues with the pistol range can be fixed without a major overhaul.

Are there any plans to hold matches there between this year's Nationals and the 2022 Nationals? I am very curious and would like to try this range for myself.

Since, unlike Perry, the Atterbury range is a fixed installation that won't be used for rifle qualifications, perhaps it could be used in the "off season" without too much trouble for the Indiana National Guard.

Orpanaut

Posts : 167
Join date : 2015-08-06

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by james r chapman Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:46 am

I’ve read currently not a pro gun commandant
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 5241
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 72
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by chopper Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:26 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:
john bickar wrote:What direction does the firing line face?
Down range 😂
 That is funny,funny, funny!

chopper

Posts : 535
Join date : 2013-10-30
Age : 69
Location : Western Iowa

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by Danehogle Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:01 pm

Orpanaut wrote:It sounds like the issues with the pistol range can be fixed without a major overhaul.  

Are there any plans to hold matches there between this year's Nationals and the 2022 Nationals?  I am very curious and would like to try this range for myself.

Since, unlike Perry, the Atterbury range is a fixed installation that won't be used for rifle qualifications, perhaps it could be used in the "off season" without too much trouble for the Indiana National Guard.
I would think  pulling the turning system, ripping up five 400’ long concrete target lines. Re-pouring said concrete,  installing target turning system that has been been upgraded with something other than aluminum  target frames, would be some what costly. Better to have done it right the first time…. But don’t ask me….
Danehogle
Danehogle

Posts : 322
Join date : 2015-07-13
Location : Mt. Vernon Ohio

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by Schaumannk Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:05 pm

Danehogle wrote:
Orpanaut wrote:It sounds like the issues with the pistol range can be fixed without a major overhaul.  

Are there any plans to hold matches there between this year's Nationals and the 2022 Nationals?  I am very curious and would like to try this range for myself.

Since, unlike Perry, the Atterbury range is a fixed installation that won't be used for rifle qualifications, perhaps it could be used in the "off season" without too much trouble for the Indiana National Guard.
I would think  pulling the turning system, ripping up five 400’ long concrete target lines. Re-pouring said concrete,  installing target turning system that has been been upgraded with something other than aluminum  target frames, would be some what costly. Better to have done it right the first time…. But done ask me….
It really depends on the contract and the warranty provisions.   A simple extension on the roof and cutting the box every ten firing points where there is a break anyway might be the cheapest solution.

Schaumannk

Posts : 581
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Cheyenne, WY

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by Wobbley Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:37 pm




I would think  pulling the turning system, ripping up five 400’ long concrete target lines. Re-pouring said concrete,  installing target turning system that has been been upgraded with something other than aluminum  target frames, would be some what costly. Better to have done it right the first time…. But don’t ask me….
There’s never enough time to do it right, but there plenty of time and Money to do it over.
Wobbley
Wobbley

Posts : 3333
Join date : 2015-02-13

Allen Barnett, dieselguy624, Danehogle, MarkOue, djperry2 and lakemurrayman like this post

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty BE gear on folding table bench

Post by xman Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:40 pm

xman wrote:
radjag wrote:The Atterbury range, initially, looked quite impressive. But, as always, the devil is in the details.

Despite a very wide and smooth concrete slab, the folding tables which are the "benches" are positioned right at the front edge so that shooters are standing in the sun (yay!) or, possibly on Sunday, in the rain that misses the roof overhang (boo!).

Using folding tables for the shooting benches is problematic. I am 6'3" and when I put my pistol box on a folding table used as a shooting bench, even at its highest point my spotting scope is still 6 inches short of eye level. Folding tables are about 30" tall IIRC.

I carry a "booster" box to lift the pistol box up about 7 inches.

I shoot at 1 club where the concrete apron extends quite a distance in front of the benches. The benches are high enough that an AD would go into the grass. The extended apron also allows for better brass policing/retrieval.

At another club the firing line places the shooters and equipment in a real tough sun field. The same club uses folding tables so a double whammy. The club is in the process of installing a turning target line. Maybe the designer will move the target line closer to the firing line and thusly getting the firing line into some shade. The apron does have some room to spare.
 
Am just glad to have 3 clubs within 2 hours of me with active BE programs. Warts and all.
Here is my BE gear went shooting from folding tables.
Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Be_gea11
xman
xman

Posts : 455
Join date : 2015-01-11
Age : 66
Location : Tyler,TX

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by Orpanaut Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:00 am

Danehogle wrote:
Orpanaut wrote:It sounds like the issues with the pistol range can be fixed without a major overhaul.  

Are there any plans to hold matches there between this year's Nationals and the 2022 Nationals?  I am very curious and would like to try this range for myself.

Since, unlike Perry, the Atterbury range is a fixed installation that won't be used for rifle qualifications, perhaps it could be used in the "off season" without too much trouble for the Indiana National Guard.
I would think  pulling the turning system, ripping up five 400’ long concrete target lines. Re-pouring said concrete,  installing target turning system that has been been upgraded with something other than aluminum  target frames, would be some what costly. Better to have done it right the first time…. But don’t ask me….
From what's been posted here, it sounds like the main issues at the Atterbury range are:

1) The firing line is too close to the front of the concrete pad and roof.

2) The target frames are high and difficult to reach.

It doesn't seem like either problem would require ripping up the concrete.  Just extend the roof another two feet forward (which, admittedly, might require replacing the entire roof and its supports) and either replace the target frames or add some way for shooters to reach them. 

I don't think anyone here disagrees that the original design was flawed.

Orpanaut

Posts : 167
Join date : 2015-08-06

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by dapduh2 Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:17 am

There is also the problem with targets that don’t fully face. They turn and are bladed away at a 20 degree angle some more maybe. Some are flat and some blade. They say they can’t fix them and just ask us to find a different point to fire from. To me that has been the most frustrating part of the targetry. Oh and folks thought canton is bad about targets turning and shaking for 2 seconds… some of these Atterbury targets wave back and forth after turning for the entire timed fire. 
It has potential to be really good I think. Just currently frustrating.
dapduh2
dapduh2

Posts : 299
Join date : 2018-03-25
Location : Crewe, VA

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by SteveT Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:23 am

The current range is built for 200 positions, so they could handle 400 shooters with 2 relays.

We had a failure on one end of the range today and about 10 shooters had to move to the other end to finish CF second relay. I was to take a look at it tomorrow. I was told the bolt holding the rod-end broke. If this was a metal rod-end it must have had a flaw of been unbelievably cheap. Someone said it was made of plastic, but wasn't that mechanically inclined. I took this picture of the targets today. They are made in blocks of 10, with one air cylinder controlling 2 blocks (20 targets total) and the last target in the chain has a stop. I'm going to look closer at it tomorrow.
Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Img_2710
SteveT
SteveT

Posts : 756
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Illinois

https://sites.google.com/site/sdturner/shooting

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by weber1b Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:38 am

Are there issues with the new range, yes. Can they be resolved, yes. But my impression is that this range has great potential as it matures. I like the setting and while the tournament was smaller than one would expect for the national championship, there was a solid group of competitors. A lot of familiar faces and of course some noticeable perhaps by their absence. I wanted very much to be there for the first one and am very glad i was. I had a very good time, actually shot pretty good considering with my move this year my shooting and practice has been impeded. I will make next years match, god willing, and would encourage as many of you as can to do so as well.

BTW, did I say we have cover and a concrete pad?.........

weber1b

Posts : 504
Join date : 2015-10-04
Location : Ballwin, MO

SteveT, Schaumannk and radjag like this post

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by PhotoEscape Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:23 pm

I want to start exactly where Weber1b ended - this new range has great potential, and most important features, IMHO, are in place - solid concrete pad and roof over the shooters head!  These are the critical features!  Anyone can appreciate that, especially after shooting matches in Canton and Perry earlier.  I can foresee comments to that extend, like "tough it up", but.......

I also want to commend outstanding work done by ROs and referees.  The only wish would be the better communications with tower.  And this is where I want to start my list of the recommended improvement.  Position of the tower should be changed, especially if all 100 firing points are used.  It becomes even more essential if 200 firing points are used, because both 100 FPs banks are close to each other, and having two separate towers (like in Perry) would be confusing.  Current tower seats a bit high for providing adequate visibility to either end of the firing line.  Especially on the right side, where visibility even more obstructed.

Next in line - wireless communications to controls for turning targets and to speakers have to be replaced with hard wire.  Manual timing should be replaced with automated timer.

Target frames should be shortened by 4-6".  It is very easy to accomplish.  I can even volunteer to create a jig that will allow for installing it over the bottom portion of the frame using existing holes, and have pilot holes for drill bit for drilling new holes and cutting point.  Yes, it would be manual process, but would not require complete replacement of target frames. 

Target frames at 50Y line should have pins with OD close to diameter of drilled holes in order to eliminate even slight rotation and have conical ends to ease insertion.  Obviously using rotational target mechanisms on 50Y line was a mistake.  Whatever components possible should be removed and repurposed.

Bars that daisy chain targets in banks should be shortened and plastic i-bolts should be replaced with metal ones and have longer thread for allowing wider range of adjustment for individual target.  I hope, that adding rigidity to the bank of targets also will eliminate tremors mentioned by David above.  While this target shaking might not mean a lot for lousy shooter like myself, it definitely can make difference for masters and HMs.  I venture to say difference between 9 and X!

Bars on the ground should be protected from shooters being able to step on.  Simple wooden structure would be sufficient, and the picture posted by Steve T kind of hinting how to do it.  Regardless, there should be ramps installed for shooters to cross firing lines.  Ideally one ramp per two targets.  However, I'm sure we can live with one per five or even ten.  Especially if wooden bar (it is an absolute must regardless of everything else!) in front of targets fully covered (2x6 or 2x8 board), target frames shortened and extra wooden blocks removed.

Now the big item.  Target lines should be moved.  I hope, that concrete pads at both 25Y & 50Y extend below wooden barrier.  If that is true, it might be sufficient and allow for avoiding costly construction.  New location for wooden bar can be secured by posts placed every so often, - that is IMO, but something more sturdy might be necessary.

Needless to say, shooting tables have to be shooting tables!
I'm sure there are more technical improvements can be made.  I suggest all shooters who were there for Inaugural Match, to add items and remediation suggestions.

On administrative end, I think, better job can be done on scheduling.  Even with two relays and team matches we were done at 13:00 the latest, or just about.  With limited housing available at the base and in immediate proximity, making it to 7:30 start of first relay isn't easy, but also is not necessary, IMO.  Also, with no vendors row (I understand that Atterbury in difference with Perry is quite a functional base!  I hope, this can be addressed somehow in the future.  I.e. there is ample of idle territories just outside of the base's gate on Hospital Rd.) there is not much to do once we done shooting on any particular day.  On a flip side this provided for unparalleled camaraderie among shooters.  Separate thank you to All Guards Team for bringing their Gunsmith, - he was the only and last resource for those in need.

And one more item!  It was a Shooting Marathon starting from Cardinal to Atterbury.  While my results desire to be better, I am proud that I was able to complete it.  However I'm not sure I will have enough in me to repeat it next year.  With that, I really hope there is a room for adjustments and grouping events in wider time frame with longer breaks between them.

AP
PhotoEscape
PhotoEscape

Posts : 1035
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : Northern Illinois, USA

SteveT, radjag and Jambat like this post

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by chiz1180 Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:07 pm

I was unable to shoot Atterbury due to work and family obligations, but reading this it seems like it could be close to perfect if they changed just about everything. It is unfortunate that the start was so rough.

chiz1180

Posts : 465
Join date : 2019-05-29

Joe Morgan likes this post

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by james r chapman Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:29 pm

I think 55” to center would be nice.
4-6” won’t get it!
Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 C29eed10

(Randy Tomac photo)
james r chapman
james r chapman
Admin

Posts : 5241
Join date : 2012-01-31
Age : 72
Location : HELL, Michigan

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by SteveT Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:08 am

chiz1180 wrote:I was unable to shoot Atterbury due to work and family obligations, but reading this it seems like it could be close to perfect if they changed just about everything. It is unfortunate that the start was so rough.
no, just tweak a few things and change one or two things.
SteveT
SteveT

Posts : 756
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Illinois

https://sites.google.com/site/sdturner/shooting

dapduh2 likes this post

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by Schaumannk Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:04 am

SteveT wrote:
chiz1180 wrote:I was unable to shoot Atterbury due to work and family obligations, but reading this it seems like it could be close to perfect if they changed just about everything. It is unfortunate that the start was so rough.
no, just tweak a few things and change one or two things.
I agree with Steve.  The weather was darn near perfect, and the line crew professional and friendly.   Most pleasant match I have ever shot in the Midwest.  There is every reason to think it will get even better in the future.

Schaumannk

Posts : 581
Join date : 2011-06-11
Location : Cheyenne, WY

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by xman Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:21 pm

james r chapman wrote:I think 55” to center would be nice.
4-6” won’t get it!
Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 C29eed10

(Randy Tomac photo)
HOLY MOSES! A pic is worth a 1000 words.
xman
xman

Posts : 455
Join date : 2015-01-11
Age : 66
Location : Tyler,TX

james r chapman and Danehogle like this post

Back to top Go down

Camp Atterbury 2021? - Page 4 Empty Re: Camp Atterbury 2021?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 4 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum