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Camp Atturbury Competitors Meeting

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Post by SteveT 7/24/2021, 9:12 pm

The competitors meeting was this afternoon. Here are a few things I heard. Others can add more.  I missed a bit because of the background noise, talking and Blackhawk helicopters spooling up and flying away from the adjacent field. I didn't take notes, this is all from memory in the hotel tonight after a few beers. Any mistakes are surely mine.

Competitions Director Cole McCulloch and Match Director Kenn Boyd were the main speakers and answered questions.

The competition department is extremely understaffed. They now have job req's approved, so it should get better, but right now it is a skeleton staff. Cole also said the position of Pistol Director is open, so if someone wants to put themselves forward for the job, contact Cole McCulloch.

Cole said relations were good with the CMP and IN NG and they had no intention of interfering with the schedules of Camp Perry, Canton or Cardinal. This means Atterbury will be after Camp Perry. The participants present overwhelmingly preferred starting the Atterbury matches 1 or 2 days after Perry and finishing on Friday or Saturday. Later in the meeting it was asked if the matches could be scheduled later in the summer. That way participating in both Perry and Atterbury would be 2 shorter trips rather than one long trip. It was said that the match would have to be during the currently scheduled time period since the same staff support both rifle and pistol. It sounds like they will try to schedule next year to be either Mon-Fri or Tues-Sat after Perry.

They are open to adding CMP EIC matches to add a little more shooting to the day, since we were almost always done by 1:30. The overwhelming majority of competitors indicated support for adding matches. The most likely plan would be to keep Revolver matches on the first day, then have 22 Rimfire EIC on 22 day, shoot the Maleigh Cup on CF day and shoot a Service Pistol EIC on 45 day.

They are working to bring in vendors, but need more participants to make it worthwhile. There is a building near the pistol and smallbore ranges that would be ideal with a fairly large, air conditioned indoor area.

It is not likely that the NRA will be putting more money towards precision pistol any time soon. It wasn't said that blatantly, this is my interpretation.

The ranges and targets were not built the way they were spec'ed. They said this will be addressed. No info was given, but my guess (and it's just a guess) is that after the plans were created, they went through the NRA BOD, legal and purchasing and through the IN NG staff and somewhere along the way it was modified. They couldn't be fixed before the matches this year, but they seemed pretty confident the contract with the state of IN would force them to be fixed including moving the target lines closer.

There was a lot of frustration expressed about the turning targets. There was significant confidence expressed that they would be improved for next year.

The contract with the state of IN requires building another range the same as the existing 200 point range just a little further down the road. If there is support there will be 400 firing points available for the pistol championships.

They are working with the IN NG to have more on base housing available next year. I think they hinted (my interpretation, could be wrong) that the IN NG may alter their schedule so there is less training and personnel on base during the matches in the future. They didn't expect really high participation this year, but hope it will grow going forward. Most participants in the meeting indicated they would be returning next year when asked.

There was some frustration expressed at the lack of information available prior to the matches. Cole said they were not allowed to release as much info as they would have liked, but didn't specify where the problems were.

Cole said the NY lawsuit against the NRA is making everything difficult, including that all staff working the matches, including volunteers, had to be documented the same as if they were hired by the NRA or contractors working for them. I didn't understand all of this so maybe I got it wrong, but that is one reason they have such a small staff. They expect to have more staff on hand in the future.
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Post by SteveT 7/24/2021, 9:28 pm

Oh yeah, one more thing... They said there are plans to put gutters on the front of the roof so we won't be shooting through a wall of water if it rains.
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Post by L Valdez 7/25/2021, 11:03 am

Nice report, thanks for sharing the discussion.

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Post by lee212 8/9/2021, 4:55 am

Awesome. Thanks for sharing

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Post by Colt711 8/11/2021, 9:19 pm

L Valdez wrote:Nice report, thanks for sharing the discussion.
Dittoes!!
Helps an old guy keep up w/ Bullsye events. Sure do miss the game!

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Post by dapduh2 8/12/2021, 8:01 am

I remember Cole mentioning how Precision Pistol will be a focus and growing the numbers. My entry fee was $490, and I got a plastic trophy in return. They also had sponsors but nothing from them donated to winners. I’ve gotten more winnings for placing lower at small regional events that cost me $100 to enter. I don’t see stuff increasing if they don’t reinvest some of that money into prizes and winnings. 

To make matters even more annoying. The NRA has called twice and emailed 12 times in the two weeks since I got back asking for more money. AND one of the emails “reminded” me of a gun show coming up. So I got excited and showed up and paid my entry fee to find out that there were no guns and it was an outdoor sportsman show. Sounds cool, but was just outfitters from around the world trying to convince me to pay to kill lions in Africa. 

So I find myself more and more annoyed with the NRA now
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Post by james r chapman 8/12/2021, 11:14 am

Maybe it’s time to add Lewis’s or options to nationals.
Like 100 st, 2600, 2500, 2400, etc
Done right, everyone can get a piece occasionally


Last edited by james r chapman on 8/12/2021, 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added options)
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Post by dapduh2 8/12/2021, 12:53 pm

james r chapman wrote:Maybe it’s time to add Lewis’s or options to nationals.
Like 100 st, 2600, 2500, 2400, etc
Done right, everyone can get a piece occasionally
That would require them being willing to give something away and not pocket everything.
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Post by Allen Barnett 8/12/2021, 1:34 pm

At least Atterbury used their classification system unlike Perry where it was just one big pile.  YES I AM STILL PISSED!!!!

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Post by dapduh2 8/12/2021, 2:51 pm

Allen Barnett wrote:At least Atterbury used their classification system unlike Perry where it was just one big pile.  YES I AM STILL PISSED!!!!
Where if you were first place marksman you would’ve gotten nothing, just the joy of shooting for $500.
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Post by Allen Barnett 8/12/2021, 5:28 pm

At least I would of known how I faired against other people of my abilities.

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Post by lyman1903 8/14/2021, 10:01 am

dapduh2 wrote:I remember Cole mentioning how Precision Pistol will be a focus and growing the numbers. My entry fee was $490, and I got a plastic trophy in return. They also had sponsors but nothing from them donated to winners. I’ve gotten more winnings for placing lower at small regional events that cost me $100 to enter. I don’t see stuff increasing if they don’t reinvest some of that money into prizes and winnings. 

To make matters even more annoying. The NRA has called twice and emailed 12 times in the two weeks since I got back asking for more money. AND one of the emails “reminded” me of a gun show coming up. So I got excited and showed up and paid my entry fee to find out that there were no guns and it was an outdoor sportsman show. Sounds cool, but was just outfitters from around the world trying to convince me to pay to kill lions in Africa. 

So I find myself more and more annoyed with the NRA now


the Sportsman Classic or some such similar name, at the Racetrack?

that show was bought by the promotor that does the RVA gunshow, (Showmasters)

the next RVA show is August 28/29 IIRC
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Post by Schaumannk 8/16/2021, 12:55 pm

“I remember Cole mentioning how Precision Pistol will be a focus and growing the numbers. My entry fee was $490, and I got a plastic trophy in return. They also had sponsors but nothing from them donated to winners. I’ve gotten more winnings for placing lower at small regional events that cost me $100 to enter. I don’t see stuff increasing if they don’t reinvest some of that money into prizes and winnings. “Suspect




Wow.   Why so much?   I wouldn’t have paid that, and in fact, I didn’t.    The entry fee as I recall was around 270 dollars.   


Now Cardinal was an expensive match. That one, I won’t pay for any more.   

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Post by chiz1180 8/16/2021, 1:00 pm

Schaumannk wrote:“I remember Cole mentioning how Precision Pistol will be a focus and growing the numbers. My entry fee was $490, and I got a plastic trophy in return. They also had sponsors but nothing from them donated to winners. I’ve gotten more winnings for placing lower at small regional events that cost me $100 to enter. I don’t see stuff increasing if they don’t reinvest some of that money into prizes and winnings. “Suspect




Wow.   Why so much?   I wouldn’t have paid that, and in fact, I didn’t.    The entry fee as I recall was around 270 dollars.   


Now Cardinal was an expensive match. That one, I won’t pay for any more.   
Cardinal's Match fee if you shot the 3600 and all the EIC's was $200....
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Post by dapduh2 8/16/2021, 1:04 pm

Schaumannk wrote:“I remember Cole mentioning how Precision Pistol will be a focus and growing the numbers. My entry fee was $490, and I got a plastic trophy in return. They also had sponsors but nothing from them donated to winners. I’ve gotten more winnings for placing lower at small regional events that cost me $100 to enter. I don’t see stuff increasing if they don’t reinvest some of that money into prizes and winnings. “Suspect




Wow.   Why so much?   I wouldn’t have paid that, and in fact, I didn’t.    The entry fee as I recall was around 270 dollars.   


Now Cardinal was an expensive match. That one, I won’t pay for any more.   
Team matches and revolver matches in addition to the 2700. Cardinal match gave a tremendous amount of their entry fee back in checks that recently got mailed out.
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Post by Schaumannk 8/16/2021, 1:15 pm

dapduh2 wrote:
Schaumannk wrote:“I remember Cole mentioning how Precision Pistol will be a focus and growing the numbers. My entry fee was $490, and I got a plastic trophy in return. They also had sponsors but nothing from them donated to winners. I’ve gotten more winnings for placing lower at small regional events that cost me $100 to enter. I don’t see stuff increasing if they don’t reinvest some of that money into prizes and winnings. “Suspect




Wow.   Why so much?   I wouldn’t have paid that, and in fact, I didn’t.    The entry fee as I recall was around 270 dollars.   


Now Cardinal was an expensive match. That one, I won’t pay for any more.   
Team matches and revolver matches in addition to the 2700. Cardinal match gave a tremendous amount of their entry fee back in checks that recently got mailed out.
Almost double the cost of Canton.

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Post by chiz1180 8/16/2021, 1:23 pm

Canton's 2700 +EICs/DR was $165, the difference between Canton and Cardinal is not double or even close to double, it is $35 more and an additional 900 match.
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Post by L Valdez 8/16/2021, 1:33 pm

dapduh2 wrote:I remember Cole mentioning how Precision Pistol will be a focus and growing the numbers. My entry fee was $490, and I got a plastic trophy in return. 

You're a military shooter. In addition to getting paid, travel pay, meals, lodging, and reimbursed for entry fees -  you're complaining?

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Post by dapduh2 8/16/2021, 4:24 pm

L Valdez wrote:
dapduh2 wrote:I remember Cole mentioning how Precision Pistol will be a focus and growing the numbers. My entry fee was $490, and I got a plastic trophy in return. 

You're a military shooter. In addition to getting paid, travel pay, meals, lodging, and reimbursed for entry fees -  you're complaining?
You’re correct. I am fortunate in that I get support from the military to shoot matches, depending on budget. This year I shot in Arizona at desert Midwestern and canton, Perry, and Atterbury on the gov dime. But most matches I shoot I'm not supported. I am not a full time military shooter. 
I have shot 2 regionals, a handful of local matches, Cardinal 4 gun all on my own dime and it’s barely August. I have a state match next month, a regional in October, air gun nationals and a handful of local matches I still plan to shoot on my own. 

So yes, I am complaining. The NRA is by far the most expensive match and gave zero in return. Not to mention they keep charging for DR and told me directly they are a few years behind and currently it isn’t a priority and may not be for a while. To me that is fraud. If you are cool with it then good for you. Regardless of if I get travel pay, lodging, and entry fees paid we still deserve better. Or maybe only those that pay for every single match of the year on their own shouldn’t be ripped off?
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Post by Danehogle 8/16/2021, 4:48 pm

I guess “ military shooters “ are not allowed to have an opinion.
Anyone want to bet on when the 2020 sectional trophy will be shipped? 
How about the 2021 results?  And I am sure John B is still waiting on the 2018 national championship trophy.
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Post by dapduh2 8/16/2021, 4:49 pm

Danehogle wrote:I guess “ military shooters “ are not allowed to have an opinion.
Anyone want to bet on when the 2020 sectional trophy will be shipped? 
How about the 2021 results?  And I am sure John B is still waiting on the 2018 national championship trophy.
It’s funny. Maybe that’s why military shooters don’t attend the other NRA Atterbury events. Makes more sense now
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