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Meeting Trigger Pull Weight at Competition

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SteveT
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Post by Jacob53 Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:30 pm

Hi all,

I am planning on competing in a match in which they will measure each competitor's trigger pull weight - and rimfire pistols can't be less than 2 pounds.  This is new for me, the matches I usually go to are less formal and don't check each competitor's trigger pull.  I'll be shooting a Hammerli X-ESSE with a trigger job done a few years ago by Larry's Guns.

Not wanting to get DQ'd I bought a Wheeler digital trigger pull gauge and was surprised to see that my trigger averages about 1 pound 14 ounces.  

Going to the match involves airfare - care rental - hotel so I don't want to show up and not be able to compete.  Any suggestions on how I can slightly increase the trigger pull without completely messing up my beautiful trigger?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

See you on the line,

Jacob

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Post by mspingeld Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:40 pm

Was it a trigger job or a trigger supplied and installed by Larry? Larry's triggers come with instructions and are easily adjustable. If it's a Larry's trigger, I have the instructions. PM me with your email address.

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Post by james r chapman Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:41 pm

They will probably be using NRA certified weights.
Try and find a Smith that has a set
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Post by Jon Eulette Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:35 pm

Learn how to adjust your trigger weight on the spot. If it fails add more spring tension and your hood to go.
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Post by Allgoodhits Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:19 pm

Jacob53 wrote:Hi all,

I am planning on competing in a match in which they will measure each competitor's trigger pull weight - and rimfire pistols can't be less than 2 pounds.  This is new for me, the matches I usually go to are less formal and don't check each competitor's trigger pull.  I'll be shooting a Hammerli X-ESSE with a trigger job done a few years ago by Larry's Guns.

Not wanting to get DQ'd I bought a Wheeler digital trigger pull gauge and was surprised to see that my trigger averages about 1 pound 14 ounces.  

Going to the match involves airfare - care rental - hotel so I don't want to show up and not be able to compete.  Any suggestions on how I can slightly increase the trigger pull without completely messing up my beautiful trigger?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

See you on the line,

Jacob
FWIW my experience with electronic trigger gauge (Lyman) is that they are pretty accurate. However, how you use it and how you calibrate or reset it matter. Typically, with an electronic pull gauge one will use it horizontally. Therefore, when you calibrate or reset it, hold it in the horizontal position. Otherwise the weight of the shaft and hook are either added too, or subtracted from the calibration reset.

You can test this easily by lifting a known weight. Reset the gauge in upright vertical, pointing down vertical and horizontal positions will give a varying measure by +/-  several ounces. Calibrate the way you will use it. That's my findings.
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Post by jglenn21 Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:04 pm

if you had Larry's install his trigger then you have the adjustable second stage screw..this is screw protruding from the frame behind the trigger. the screw has an adjustment screw inside of it. You can access it from the back of the frame with a long allen wrench.. screwing it clockwise will increase the pressure.  doesn't take much.. the allen screw compresses a spring inside of the larger screw that most often acts as a trigger stop..

the 1st stage is adjustable on the trigger itself. 2nd screw from the front of the trigger.. screwing it in increases pressure also.


this is a thread on Targettalk where I describe the trigger in more detail

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=59545&p=286282#p286282
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Post by Jacob53 Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:07 am

I want to thank everyone for all your help with this.  I'll try to spend some time this weekend working on the trigger.  I appreciate all the help.

Jacob

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Post by CO1Mtn Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:02 am

If you don't trust your scale you can use a quart size milk jug or gatorade bottle, fill it with water and run a wire coat hanger through the top of the bottle. Then lift the hook end with your trigger. If it doesn't fire the trigger, you're at minimum weight. One quart of water weighs 2.08 lbs. One liter weighs 2.2 lbs. I come up with these MacGyver methods when I'm living out of a suitcase between deployments.

Also, I think the leaf spring is what you should adjust. You just need to increase the spring tension just a little bit. Maybe that is what that adjustment screw does. I'd speculate that the tip of the screw contacts the leaf spring to adjust tension.
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Post by pgg Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:36 pm

Where can one buy NRA certified trigger weights?

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Post by jglenn21 Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:59 pm

brownells and Champions Choice sells them But, none in stock
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Post by SteveT Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:17 pm

Brownells shows in stock
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/measuring-tools/trigger-pull-gauges-weights/official-4-3-4-lb-trigger-weight-set-prod9708.aspx

Champions Choice shows the more expensive combined Rifle Pistol Set
http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=ItemDetailOptions&item=TW650

You can also make one from a coat hanger. Add a cup underneath, put on a scale and add bullets until it weighs what you want.

FWIW I have never found 1/4 or 1/2 a pound to be the difference in my shooting. All my triggers are well over the minimum trigger weight. I don't need the stress of wondering if my gun will make weight when I'm chosen for a random trigger check... or if I set a national record, I don't want it disallowed just because my trigger is a little underweight.
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Post by CO1Mtn Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:23 pm

My trigger somehow creeps up from 2.25 lbs to 3.0 lbs over time. I have to re-adjust something every year to keep it back down. I don't know why.
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Post by aub1957 Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:08 am

I shoot a bunch of different matches, mostly rifle. I purchased one of those NRA rifle/pistol sets (like the one in the Champions Choice link above) a couple years ago, and I have no regrets at all with that purchase. I use them all the time to check triggers prior to the matches.

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Post by SteveT Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:04 am

CO1Mtn wrote:My trigger somehow creeps up from 2.25 lbs to 3.0 lbs over time. I have to re-adjust something every year to keep it back down. I don't know why.
Could a screw be turning from vibration? Maybe mark the position of the screw and watch it over time. This assumes it is an adjustable trigger. If it is a fixed trigger like a 1911 I've no idea. A bad spring would usually make the trigger weight lighter.

I've started using Vibra-Tite or removable Loc-Tite on just about every screw I see. I don't know if it's something I am doing but my grip screws come loose every few shooting sessions, same for my spotting scope mount and range cart bolts. It's still early, but after a few weeks everything is still tight.
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Post by CO1Mtn Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:09 pm

I don't know what's causing it. I have had a host of equipment issues this year. Last match, my hammer broke and my rear sight broke and I had two alibis, and I went from first place to last place. I lost an EIC match a couple of months ago due to a light firing pin strike, and having to shoot an alibi string. I am using an old 20x spotting scope that never focuses right. I'm trying to overhaul everything before I compete again, because I'm tired of trying to limp along with broken or outdated equipment. I'm a penny pincher, so it hurts to spend money, but I think I have to now.
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Post by jglenn21 Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:47 am

Upgrade all your ignition parts..  egw, c&s or extreme engineering all make excellent hardened parts..don't use a titanium firing pin. Std works fine..
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Post by CO1Mtn Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:18 am

Seems to me that these Nelson conversions are very accurate when they work, but they have their problems sometimes. I don't know if they have more problems than purpose-built rimfire pistols such as the S&W41, Ruger MK4 or Hammerli.
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Post by Allgoodhits Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:33 pm

No experience with Nelsons, however with Marvel plenty experience. 

In my experiences: 

1. The guide rod must be tight. Very tight.

2. The barrel must be fouled. It seems 10 - 20 rounds from clean, then it starts shooting.

3. Magazines. I have the best luck with GSG magazines.

Until I landed on the above 3 things, I spent many a frustrating range session with Marvels. I have three now, and like them all.
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Post by DA/SA Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:02 pm

Further to the above post, magazine fit is important for proper function. I have two frames that I have had my Marvel on and both like different magazines. One frame is 100% with GSG magazines and the other frame is 100% with the plastic magazines. Mix them up and feed issues start to appear.

It all seems to be the fit of the magazine in the well. If the magazine rattles around, it's trouble.

Once I figured that out it has been trouble free.

I actually discovered that with Sig .22 conversion kits years ago. I had lots of issues until I started adding strips of aluminum tape to the back side of the magazine until they fit nicely in the well and haven't had an issue with them since regardless of ammo.
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Post by CO1Mtn Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:40 pm

I'm about to mothball my Nelson and get a dedicated rimfire pistol. Hence the question I posted in another thread. I'm trying to make a determination on which to buy. I saw a Buckmark Field Target in a store recently, but I test fired the trigger on a snap cap and the trigger felt awful. I'll pass on that one.
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Post by SingleActionAndrew Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:19 am

My understanding is that the buckmark sear spring can be reversed for an ~50% trigger pull reduction
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Post by CO1Mtn Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:51 am

True. But it was the grittiness of the trigger that I didn't like. It seems to me that modern manufacturers skip the step of making sure a trigger is smooth or polished.
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Post by Olde Pilot Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:34 am

Hammerli X-esse is a bargain.

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Post by Allgoodhits Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:52 am

DA/SA wrote:Further to the above post, magazine fit is important for proper function. I have two frames that I have had my Marvel on and both like different magazines. One frame is 100% with GSG magazines and the other frame is 100% with the plastic magazines. Mix them up and feed issues start to appear.

It all seems to be the fit of the magazine in the well. If the magazine rattles around, it's trouble.

Once I figured that out it has been trouble free.

I actually discovered that with Sig .22 conversion kits years ago. I had lots of issues until I started adding strips of aluminum tape to the back side of the magazine until they fit nicely in the well and haven't had an issue with them since regardless of ammo.
...and the relationship of the magazine catch to the magazines. I have started paying attention to the mag catch notch on the GSG magazines. Since they are not thru holes like on other magazines. Crud can build up on that shelf area of the magazine. Leave no stone unturned.

~Martin
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Post by Jon Eulette Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:06 pm

CO1Mtn wrote:My trigger somehow creeps up from 2.25 lbs to 3.0 lbs over time. I have to re-adjust something every year to keep it back down. I don't know why.
Some springs take a set to them and if you don’t bend them in a different spot the weight does change back towards the original setting.
You might just buy a new spring and when your done adjusting/bending the spring your weight will probably hold.
I have encountered this many times over the years.
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