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Zero hardness

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Wobbley
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Post by faraim Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:58 pm

Does anyone know the hardness of the Zero 45 caliber match bullets. I assume the swaged bullet must be pretty soft. Are there any leading issues with them? Thanks.
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Post by james r chapman Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:26 pm

Generally if you keep them lubed and normal be velocity they work well.
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Post by James Hensler Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:02 pm

Like Jim said they are all I use and personally I have never had a leading issue. My 200 grain SWC fly very nice
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Post by Wobbley Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:14 pm

Normal alloys used for swaging are in the 5 to 8 “BHN” range.  Although I have not tested zeros.

Some guys who experience leading with swaged, get around that with a single coat of Powder Coating.  Rattle 100 cleaned bullets or so in a Glad/Ziploc plastic bowl with a tablespoon of Eastman powder coat.  About 20 seconds of rattling.  Pour them on a toaster oven tray lined with Non-Stick tinfoil and bake them in said toaster oven for 20 minutes at 400F.  Clean the bullets of any lube using acetone.
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Post by Jon Eulette Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:20 pm

I’ve seen minor leading just into the lead angle on many barrels using swaged bullets. Doesn’t seem to affect the accuracy. Have had this conversation with many top shooters and we are of the same opinion that the minor leading isn’t a big deal. But yeah we wish they were not leading lol. Jerry Keefer was telling me he experienced leading in many barrels that when lead angle reamers (only lead angle is being cut) were used to modify the lead would lead with cast and swaged bullets.
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Post by chiz1180 Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:20 pm

Just don't push them too hot and you shouldn't have issues.
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Post by faraim Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:25 pm

Thanks folks, my loads are just poking along so they ought to work. I've been afraid of buying something too hard and getting leading with my light loads.
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Post by Richard Benoit Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:49 pm

faraim wrote:Thanks folks, my loads are just poking along so they ought to work. I've been afraid of buying something too hard and getting leading with my light loads.
When I switched to a 45 Colt sizing die and a PhotoEscape  powder drop tube , my leading problem in front of the chamber disappeared . The Dillon sizing die is great for jacketed bullets but is too tight for swaged  , the soft ,swaged  bullets got squished down too much.

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Post by Jon Eulette Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:05 pm

The only bullets I have seen be a problem with leading, was Zero 148 hbwc about 7 years ago. They would lead the bore like spread butter. Absolutely horrible. I spoke with the owner and he said they did have an issue that was later rectified.
45 bullets typically barely lead if the do.
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Post by jglenn21 Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:13 pm

if I remember correctly Zero and others that swag bullet today use the same "hardball" mix they use to cast bullet..they are softer just due to the fact that cast bullets harden as a by product of the process and swagging does not.

as Jon said very few problems with leading with Zero or Magnus swagged bullets today
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Post by Wobbley Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:16 am

Cast bullets don’t harden simplify from being cast.  If the alloy is right and they’re dropped in water, they can hardened, but casting alloys are hard from the alloying elements.   Also note that above 5% antimony, the bullets have such low ductility as to be on the edge of brittle.  Brittleness and swaging just doesn’t work.  So, I don’t think that the alloys of the Swaged vs cast are identical.  And with the reduced ductility, you’d not be able to swage with a cold header, you’d have to use a transfer press and those are expensive and have lower production rates.
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Post by jglenn21 Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:04 am

There was an old thread on this subject and that's where i seemed to remember the hardball mix being used. It sort of stuck out as i was surprised. My experience with swagging was with jacketed rifle bullets. I had a Corbin Swage in the 80s. There we definitely used  lead wire or cast the cores all from straight lead..  it was a fun and frustriating hobby. I learned to truely appreciate the folks from Sierra, Speer and others.
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Post by jglenn21 Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:31 am

One thread on it but not the one i remember. 

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t7588-cast-versus-swaged-bullet-process?highlight=Swagged


The one i remember someone talked with Terry at Magnus and relayed that the harder hardball alloy of 2,6,92 being used. Hydraulic presses can manage much harder alloys that manual units..


Lots of info on castboolits web site on the hardening of certain lead alloys. As wobbley noted air cooled cast do not harden as much as water cooled. High antimony content aloys experience this hardening 
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