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NRA Trigger pull weight rules

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TonyH
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Post by Allgoodhits 9/14/2021, 2:21 pm

At a recent match, it was almost comical as folks were deliberating over what the trigger weight requirements were. There were semi-autos and revolvers and .22, CF and .45 caliber guns involved.  CMP EIC for Service is clear 4 lbs. There was no issue there.

It was cited that the rules state:  study

.22 must have a least a 2 lb trigger
CF must have at least a 2.5 lb trigger
.45 must have at least a 3.5 lb trigger

Revolvers must have at least a 2.5 lb trigger

So the questions were surrounding what are the required trigger pull weight for...
.22 revolvers  Is it 2 or is it 2.5 lb?
.45 revolvers  Is it 2.5 or is it 3.5 lb?

Hold on while I get my popcorn ready....   NRA Trigger pull weight rules 1960973398
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Post by chiz1180 9/14/2021, 3:13 pm

From the NRA Rule book (I left out the parts about sights as that is not relevant to question)
Rule 3.4 .22 Caliber Pistol or Revolver-
The .22 caliber pistol or revolver, as described below shall be used in the .22 caliber precision pistol matches

Any Pistol (single shot or semi-automatic) or revolver chambered for .22 caliber rim-fire long rifle may be used; barrel length, including cylinder, not more than 10 inches. Trigger pull not less than 2 pounds.

Rule 3.6 Any 45 Caliber Semi-automatic Pistol or Revolver-
The .45 Caliber pistol or revolver as described below shall be used in .45 Caliber Precision Pistol matches.

Any .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol or revolver; barrel length including cylinders, not more than 10 inches, trigger pull for revolvers not less than 2 1/2 pounds, except 45 caliber semiautomatic pistols not less than 3 1/2 pounds.

I have said it before, people are too lazy too read the rules.

Link to rule book
https://competitions.nra.org/media/8365/nra-precision-pistol-rules.pdf
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Post by TonyH 9/14/2021, 3:15 pm

.22 semi-auto pistol or revolver - 2 lbs
CF semi-auto pistol (other than 45 semi-auto) or revolver, 45 revolver - 2.5 lbs
45 semi-auto pistol - 3.5 lbs - whether used in CF or 45 match.
As stated in the current NRA pistol rule book. Enjoy the popcorn!


Last edited by TonyH on 9/15/2021, 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added some clarification)
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Post by Allgoodhits 9/14/2021, 3:34 pm

There was no doubt in my mind, just listening to the discussions were comical. Hence my opening statement.
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Post by chopper 9/15/2021, 8:40 am

TonyH wrote:.22 semi-auto pistol or revolver - 2 lb
"CF semi-auto pistol or revolver, 45 revolver - 2.5 lbs"
45 semi-auto pistol - 3.5 lbs
As stated in the current NRA pistol rule book. Enjoy the popcorn!
 You still have to be 3.5 lbs with a semi auto no matter if you shoot CF or the 45 stages in a match. It doesn't make a difference what semi auto used in CF it has to be 3.5lbs.
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Post by james r chapman 9/15/2021, 8:49 am

Uh, don’t think so!

3.5 Any Center Fire Pistol or Revolver – The center fire pistol or revolver, as described below shall be used in the Center Fire Precision Pistol matches.
Center-fire pistols (single shot or semi-automatic)) or revolvers of .32 caliber or larger (including 7.65 mm and .45 caliber pistols and revolvers); barrel length, including cylinder, not more than 10 inches; trigger pull not less than 2 1/2 pounds, except.45 caliber semiautomatic pistols not less than 3 1/2 pounds. Any Sights, in- cluding telescopic, are permitted with the exception of those sights that project an image on the target. Open (metallic) sights may be adjustable but not over 10 inches apart measured from the apex of the rear sight to the apex of the front sight. Any sighting device programmed to activate the firing mechanism is prohibited. All operational safety features of the firearm must function properly. Programs may specify particular calibers of types of Center Fire guns that will be permitted or not permitted in stated event.
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Post by chiz1180 9/15/2021, 8:56 am

chopper wrote:
TonyH wrote:.22 semi-auto pistol or revolver - 2 lb
"CF semi-auto pistol or revolver, 45 revolver - 2.5 lbs"
45 semi-auto pistol - 3.5 lbs
As stated in the current NRA pistol rule book. Enjoy the popcorn!
 You still have to be 3.5 lbs with a semi auto no matter if you shoot CF or the 45 stages in a match. It doesn't make a difference what semi auto used in CF it has to be 3.5lbs.
Stan
Slightly misguided with that statement, If you shoot a 45 semiauto in CF the trigger needs to be 3.5lbs. 32,38, 9mm, ect. can be 2 1/2lbs. CF rule below from 2020 rule book, linked in post above. 

3.5 Any Center Fire Pistol or Revolver –

The center fire pistol or revolver, as described below shall be used in the Center Fire Precision Pistol matches. Center-fire pistols (single shot or semi-automatic)) or revolvers of .32 caliber or larger (including 7.65 mm and .45 caliber pistols and revolvers); barrel length, including cylinder, not more than 10 inches; trigger pull not less than 2 1/2 pounds, except.45 caliber semiautomatic pistols not less than 3 1/2 pounds.
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Post by chopper 9/15/2021, 9:10 am

I didn't know that, thanks for clearing me up. I used to shoot 38spl. revolver in CF portion, now I've shot my 45 wad gun for a long time now in the CF and 45.
 Thanks Jim and Chiz.
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Post by Merick 9/15/2021, 1:11 pm

I had a discussion with a guy running an inspection station at perry some years ago.  I did not know this but evidently all shooters are unsafe by approaching, and yet passing, the trigger pull weight of 4.5 lbs (for rifle) when they should be adjusted to 6 lbs.

I asked if 4.5 lbs is unsafe, why don't they make the rule 6 lbs?

He informed me that all shooters would likewise approach the new 6 lbs limit, and again be just as unsafe.

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Post by james r chapman 9/15/2021, 2:29 pm

Merick wrote:I had a discussion with a guy running an inspection station at perry some years ago.  I did not know this but evidently all shooters are unsafe by approaching, and yet passing, the trigger pull weight of 4.5 lbs (for rifle) when they should be adjusted to 6 lbs.

I asked if 4.5 lbs is unsafe, why don't they make the rule 6 lbs?

He informed me that all shooters would likewise approach the new 6 lbs limit, and again be just as unsafe.

BS
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Post by Slamfire 9/30/2021, 11:14 am

Merick wrote:I had a discussion with a guy running an inspection station at perry some years ago.  I did not know this but evidently all shooters are unsafe by approaching, and yet passing, the trigger pull weight of 4.5 lbs (for rifle) when they should be adjusted to 6 lbs.

I asked if 4.5 lbs is unsafe, why don't they make the rule 6 lbs?

He informed me that all shooters would likewise approach the new 6 lbs limit, and again be just as unsafe.
Reminds me of the “We say so” Corporation.
 
The NRA rule Committee again and again shows itself to be lacking in competence and logic. It is my opinion, and I see this rule in newer, non NRA competitions, that a trigger ought to be “safe”. To me, that means the leverages, the mechanism, holds the sear and trigger in engagement during the firing, reloading, of the firearm.

NRA was set up in 1871 for the purpose of training civilians in peacetime to shoot. For more than a century the Army set the rules for NRA competition and the Army wanted civilians to be shooting weapons similar in configuration, function, to military weapons.  So you have nonsensical rules such as 3.5 pound triggers on small bore rifles, and stocks which are very close in configuration to a M1903A1 pistol grip stock.  It was only until US shooters were being whacked in International Competition by the Soviets were the rules relaxed so the frizzen and flint rules were removed from Smallbore Prone.
 
There are plenty of modern 1911’s with 2 pound trigger pulls that are mechanically safe, and they are allowed in IDPA.
 
A Note on Trigger Pull Weight
IDPA does not specify a minimum trigger pull weight.  However, the trigger pull must be safe: If you fire your gun accidentally and you send a round over the berm, in any unsafe direction, or into the ground at your feet, you will be immediately disqualified from the match and you will be asked not to bring that gun to matches until it has been made safe.  If you should injure yourself or another person, you'll have much bigger worries...
https://www.ccidpa.org/idpa-approved.html
 
Function was always the issue that determined trigger safety in Highpower Rifle. I saw a number of rifles doubling during rapid fire. Particularly before mechanically good AR15 triggers came on the market. Shooters would hone that service trigger to the lightest pull and creep and the slightest bit of wear and the service sear would fail to hold the hammer.  We always gave the shooter an alibi, and once all concerned were convinced it was a rifle problem, not a bugger hook issue, the rifle was done for the day.  Typically that meant the shooter too, as few shooters brought a backup. And, no one liked driving a couple of hours to come to a match, and then have to go home early. So the problem, once it surfaced, was self correcting.

In our sport, if anyone has noticed, alibi's ruin scores. If the trigger is too light to control in timed and rapid fire, someone's score is ruined if ten holes are not on the paper. So, if the trigger is mechanically safe, but the bugger hook is can't feel it, that situation will self correct in time.

There are those who will come up with a bunch of reasons for heavy trigger pulls. One I read claimed vintage WW2 era 1911’s  would be unsafe with a trigger less than four pounds, and they are probably right. Post WW2, the pistols and parts around were of inferior metallurgy and filed to fit, and a four pound limit would have made sense in the transistor era. However, given that WW2 era pistols, if they are used, wear out and very few of them are on the firing line. Collectors who pay the ridiculous amounts for all original WW2 firearms understand it would be cuckoo to ruin a military 1911 collector's value by making it into a Bullseye pistol.(And I am sure, it costs more than buying a new RIA NM) So the number of WW2 or WW1 pistols on the firing is vanishing small, and will get smaller, as the things wear out.  These rules have their proponents,  people who want to put the flints and frizzes back on the sideplate, and they are the ones in charge of the rules committee. Basketball The old champions of the sport want us all to use the equipment they used when General Burnside*  was head of the NRA. 

Progress is made one funeral at a time,  cheers   though, it is only a question of whether the fossils on the rule committee topple before the sport does.


* Past Presidents of the NRA to the mid 1960's

General Burnside  1871-73, Col William Church 1873-75, Gen Alexander Shaler 1875-1877, Judge N. Stanton 1877-1880, Col Gildersleeve 1880-81, Gen Winfield Hancock 1881-82, Gen Molineux 1882-83, Gen US Grant, 1883-84, Gen P Sheridan 1885-86, Gen George Wingate 1886-1902,Gen B Spencer 1902-07, Gen J Drain 1907-1910, Gen j Bates 1910-1913, Gen C Gaither  1913-15, Col William Libbey 1915-1921,  LTC Smith Brookhart (also Senator) 1921-25, Senator F Warren 1925-27, LTC F.M. Waterbury 1927-28, LTC Lewis M. Rumsey 1928-30, Hon Benedict Crowell 1930-32,     B Gen G.A. Fraser, 1932-34, , Mr Karl Frederick 1934-36, Adjutant  General Ammon B. Critchfield 1936-37, Mr Gustavus D. Pope 1937-39, Col L.W. T Waller 1939-41, LTC N. C. Nash 1941-42, Judge Hilliard Comstock, 1942-44,  Lt Comdr Thurman Randle 1944-46, Col Francis Parker 1946-48, Dr Emmet Swanson 1948-49, MGen Merritt A Edson 1949-51, Mr Harry D Linn 1951-53, Mr J Alvin Badeaus 1953-1955, Rear Admiral Morton C Mumma 1955-57, Mr George Whittington 1957-59, Mr Irvine C Porter 1959-61, Mr John Schooley 1961-63, Judge Bartlett Rummel 1963-65, Harlon Carter 1965-67, Mr Harold Glassen 1965-67.

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