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Alibi procedure and NRA rules

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CR10X
LongSlide
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Alibi procedure and NRA rules Empty Alibi procedure and NRA rules

Post by LongSlide 28/11/2021, 9:04 pm

Was at an NRA sanctioned match and another shooter had a stoppage (fail to feed); shooter raised non-firing hand and put the gun down as the RSO came over.  Immediately to the left of shooter with the stoppage, another shooter called "disallowed" to the RSO saying "you put the gun down, disallowed".  RSO shrugged his shoulders and walked away.  Shooter to the left had some connection with the club where the match was held.

My reading of NRA Precision Pistol Rules, 2020, section 10.7, says upon calling cease fire, all shooters place the gun on the bench and the shooter with the malfunction "shall raise non-shooting hand and not attempt to clear pistol until it has been cleared by a range official".   Nothing is stated about having to hold the gun. 

Is this a thing in NRA Precision pistol for calling an alibi -- that you can't put the gun down?

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Post by CR10X 28/11/2021, 9:13 pm

I've never not allowed an alibi just because the shooter put the gun down.  Sometimes there may be reasons for doing that.  But, it's not generally a good idea to do so.  It just makes it easier for range staff to make sure there is no further manipulation of the gun.  I just remind them what to do the next time.  Sounds kind picky to me, but it's their range.  

CR


Last edited by CR10X on 28/11/2021, 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by STEVE SAMELAK 28/11/2021, 9:34 pm

sometimes I think it comes down to choosing between the letter & the spirit of the rule.
If the gun did obviously go in to battery I would have let it slide.
If it did go in to battery I would have given a mild reprimand for not holding a closed gun that MAY still go off down range.
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Post by LongSlide 28/11/2021, 9:39 pm

So, having to hold the gun is a thing for an alibi? confused

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Post by xman 28/11/2021, 10:41 pm

At all the BE shoots I have attended, the alibi requesting shooter raises their non shooting hand and keeps the pistol in hand. This is for safety and pistol control reasoning. (my emphasis)

Rule 10.10a and b. Has no specific mention of keeping pistol in hand though. 

If I am called to check another shooters alibi to my left or right (no official RSO- local match). I approach the shooter on the shooting hand side, I inspect visually for a stove pipe. if not a stove pipe I ask them to eject the mag to and work the action to further inspect the problem. Examples:  failure to feed, failure to fire, failure to eject, non battery return, etc.

I declare alibi allowed and announce how many away for the benefit of the scorer .. myself or another shooter.

Have never had to deny an alibi.
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Post by Richard Ashmore 28/11/2021, 11:15 pm

LongSlide wrote:Was at an NRA sanctioned match and another shooter had a stoppage (fail to feed); shooter raised non-firing hand and put the gun down as the RSO came over.  Immediately to the left of shooter with the stoppage, another shooter called "disallowed" to the RSO saying "you put the gun down, disallowed".  RSO shrugged his shoulders and walked away.  Shooter to the left had some connection with the club where the match was held.

My reading of NRA Precision Pistol Rules, 2020, section 10.7, says upon calling cease fire, all shooters place the gun on the bench and the shooter with the malfunction "shall raise non-shooting hand and not attempt to clear pistol until it has been cleared by a range official".   Nothing is stated about having to hold the gun. 

Is this a thing in NRA Precision pistol for calling an alibi -- that you can't put the gun down?
I've been an RO many times, including the Nationals and never heard that.  And why is the RO taking direction from a competitor?
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Post by xman 28/11/2021, 11:35 pm

Richard Ashmore wrote:
LongSlide wrote:Was at an NRA sanctioned match and another shooter had a stoppage (fail to feed); shooter raised non-firing hand and put the gun down as the RSO came over.  Immediately to the left of shooter with the stoppage, another shooter called "disallowed" to the RSO saying "you put the gun down, disallowed".  RSO shrugged his shoulders and walked away.  Shooter to the left had some connection with the club where the match was held.

My reading of NRA Precision Pistol Rules, 2020, section 10.7, says upon calling cease fire, all shooters place the gun on the bench and the shooter with the malfunction "shall raise non-shooting hand and not attempt to clear pistol until it has been cleared by a range official".   Nothing is stated about having to hold the gun. 

Is this a thing in NRA Precision pistol for calling an alibi -- that you can't put the gun down?
I've been an RO many times, including the Nationals and never heard that.  And why is the RO taking direction from a competitor?
Richard,

Never heard of what specifically? 

IIRC the match caller at all of the shoots I have attended here in ETX explains the alibi procedure before the match commences. All have included holding the pistol until the alibi is resolved. NRA rules do not specifically mention holding onto the pistol. I guess that just the way we do things here. I will have to ask other shooters that went to Nationals/Perry/Atterbury (2021) what they did on alibis. No one that went, and there are several, have said they did things different than what we do in ETX.
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Post by LongSlide 28/11/2021, 11:43 pm

Richard Ashmore wrote:... And why is the RO taking direction from a competitor?
That was another oddity that I wondered about.

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Post by Richard Ashmore 29/11/2021, 12:31 am

xman wrote:

Never heard of what specifically? 


 I've been a Line Officer, Block Officer, Assistant Chief Range Officer, and Chief Range Officer at Camp Perry, and have never heard of a refire being disallowed because the competitor set his/her pistol down.
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Post by xman 29/11/2021, 1:48 am

CMP alibi rule:

5.1.7 Malfunctions in Timed and Rapid-Fire Series a) If a competitor has a malfunction during a timed or rapid-fire series and wishes to claim a malfunction, they must lower the pistol to the “Ready” position and raise their non-shooting arm.  My emphasis.

I guess local shoots have adopted the procedure de rigueur for NRA shoots.
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Post by Allen Barnett 29/11/2021, 2:45 am

If it was me that it happened to, I certainly hope it was a pass to the right score to the left day.  Anything the least bit close would be called out and I would have had him hanging dollar bills ALL day long!!!

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Post by xman 29/11/2021, 3:19 am

Allen Barnett wrote:If it was me that it happened to, I certainly hope it was a pass to the right score to the left day.  Anything the least bit close would be called out and I would have had him hanging dollar bills ALL day long!!!

Revenge is a dish best served cold

[size=14]The French diplomat Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord (1754–1838) has been credited with the saying, "La vengeance est un met que l'on doit manger froid" ["Revenge is a dish that must be eaten cold"],[/size]


Sounds better in French.


Or you can go with Klingon:   bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'
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