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SWC FTF Issues during match

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10sandxs
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troystaten
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Jwhelan939
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CR10X
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SWC FTF Issues during match Empty SWC FTF Issues during match

Post by Hammbone Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:05 pm

I just shot my 2nd indoor match of the season yesterday. This is my 2nd season of shooting BE.
I had a first yesterday. I had several FTF issues. I've NEVER had a FTF issue with this gun/ammo combo, but now I do.  I just shot a match a month ago with no issues.  The FTF issue is that the nose of the bullet would not go up the "ramp" (it's actually a non-ramped barrel).  Also, with all the issues yesterday, I never had a FTF on the 5th (last) round.  Always round 2-4, intermittently. I tried a couple different mags.  GI style and Wilson Combat mag.

Gun: Springfield Armory Range Officer, 45ACP, Kart NM fitted barrel, Eulette rail, MatchDotII, 8lb recoil spring
Ammo: Zero 200gr swaged SWC, 3.9gr N310. Bullet loaded with ledge ~.030" out form case mouth. Crimp is ~.467-.468"

I cleaned and lubed the gun the night before the match.

Upon further evaluation after the match, I noticed a couple of things:
1) the insides of my magazines were all caked with black gummy residue.
2) My cases were all very sticky.  This ammo has been loaded for several months. (The ammo I used last month was freshly loaded with in days of the match. Shame on me for not using FIFO practices).  I've been using the Hornady One-Shot lube (spraying into a 1gal zip-lock, then tumbling the brass in it).  It's looking like that stuff gets gummy as it ages.

My initial thoughts:
1) Why are the insides of my mags getting gummy? Is it the one-shot? Is it the N310? Is it the lube off the Zero bullets?
2) I'm going to try not using one-shot. I started using it last year because I started wet tumbling my brass. Wet tumbling gets it WAY cleaner than dry tumbling. Future state; after I wet-tumble, I think I'll try to run it through some corn-cob (as recommended by my mentor) to get some cob dust residue on the cases to act as a bit of a lube.

Side notes: I have some epoxy coated cast 200gr SWC of which I've loaded up a ladder. If they yield good accuracy results, I may be switching to epoxy coated bullets simply to eliminate the lube mess.

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Post by CR10X Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:11 pm

Not only does all the gunk from firing a round go into the gun some gets into the magazines as well. Just not as much so it takes a while. You should generally strip and clean magazines once a year.  I usually do it just before the nationals.

One shot doesn't matter, how much you use does.  I just lay out the brass on a towel and just spray a little lube over the cases.  Then make a hammock with the towel and shake the cases back and forth a few times.  You don't need much case lube, usually if you see it, its too much. 

Even with coated bullets, there will still be firing residue.  Very little firing residue in the gun /  magazines has anything to do with bullet lube.  

And always remember the clean out the extractor and its hole as well.  I've seen lots of shooters just about scrub the lands out a barrels and never even break down the slide, extractors and firing pins.

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Post by Hammbone Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:33 pm

CR10X wrote:Not only does all the gunk from firing a round go into the gun some gets into the magazines as well. Just not as much so it takes a while. You should generally strip and clean magazines once a year.  I usually do it just before the nationals.

One shot doesn't matter, how much you use does.  I just lay out the brass on a towel and just spray a little lube over the cases.  Then make a hammock with the towel and shake the cases back and forth a few times.  You don't need much case lube, usually if you see it, its too much. 

Even with coated bullets, there will still be firing residue.  Very little firing residue in the gun /  magazines has anything to do with bullet lube.  

And always remember the clean out the extractor and its hole as well.  I've seen lots of shooters just about scrub the lands out a barrels and never even break down the slide, extractors and firing pins.

Thanks for the tips!
-All mags have been stripped, thoroughly cleaned, and re-assembled for the next outing.
-I'll try your method with the One-Shot.  Do you do anything with the rounds after they're loaded to get lube off?  Or is it light enough with your methods to not cause a problem?
-I clean out my extractor hole with a .22 nylon bore brush and clean off the extractor every time I take the slide off for a cleaning.

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Post by Wobbley Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:27 pm

If you’re using a “carbide” die, you do not need much if any lube at all.  And for water tumbling you can just water tumble in two steps.  Wash with Dawn Lemishine for two hours to clean and polish, then size/process, then wash again with automotive “wash and wax” and distilled water.  Priming and loading then becomes a breeze.  The second tool head does not size.  Many commercial loaders process brass separately because of better loading control.
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Post by Jwhelan939 Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:52 pm

I use one shot on all of my reloads. Spray coffee can, fill with brass, roll, let dry, load. 

My typical loading habits are that I load about 5k rounds 45 and 32 and about 1k 38, 9mm, and 223 over a weekend. They then sit while I use them over the next x amount of months. 

I can only think it’s too much one shot based on the description. Literally just a couple squirts will do ya. Strange that you didn’t have any issues with the first half of the batch though. If you use too much it is tacky within minutes. Can you think of anything else you did different at all?

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Post by Al Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:28 pm

. wrote:-I'll try your method with the One-Shot.  Do you do anything with the rounds after they're loaded to get lube off?  Or is it light enough with your methods to not cause a problem?
-I clean out my extractor hole with a .22 nylon bore brush and clean off the extractor every time I take the slide off for a cleaning.
Buddy of mine showed me this 40 years ago. Works with any lube I've tried.
When done loading, pour the ammo in the center of an old towel (DO NOT USE MAMA'S GOOD TOWELS) then sprinkle some grease solvent over the ammo and towel edges. (I've used paint thinner & lighter fluid) Roll the towel up lengthwise and just see/saw the ammo back & forth a few times. They come out nicely cleaned. Except for the towel, looks like hell. Hence the good towel warning.
Allen

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Post by troystaten Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:43 pm

In addition to what is said you might increase the crimp amount to .465-.466 I don't know what crimp die you are using, I use an RCBS taper crimp die.  You might also try taking the barrel out of the gun and do a "plunk" test.  Good luck.

My suggestions and 5 dollars will get you an overprice coffee drink at Starbucks.

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Post by jglenn21 Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:22 pm

Easy solution to the sticking clean brass is to use some car  wash & wax in your tumbling as Woobly noted. Leaves them slick. Forget the spray lube


Last edited by jglenn21 on Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by 10sandxs Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:31 am

I went to wet tumble a year or so ago but had issues with cases galling in the crimp die so started using case lube... didn't like it... my process is now to tumble with dawn dish soap only, for 1.5 hrs then drain, rinse and tumble again for 15 minutes with this product and water. Still figuring out how much, but a few cap fulls seems to work fine

https://www.target.com/p/armor-all-64oz-ultra-shine-wash-and-wax-automotive-wash/-/A-13507210?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tmnv&DFA=71700000080507096&CPNG=PLA_DVM%2B0060H00000uJnRFQA0-Energizer_Auto_AO_Search_2021_Flight&adgroup=PLA_Refresh+Your+Car&LID=700000001393753pgs&network=g&device=m&location=9020754&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqbyNBhC2ARIsALDwAsDsqN_jOnldhYHgo_t79NB_q69IXkucBG884KpBB5LWl4ibP8d2OAgaAo8jEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

No more galling, no more lube issues

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Post by BE Mike Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:50 am

The older I get anything I do to reduce brute force is good, so I lube cases before running them through the carbide die. In your case, I agree with others that too much case lube is the biggest problem. I spray some on an old t-shirt, pour brass onto it, pull up the corners and massage the brass filled t-shirt. I never worry about removing the lube, as there is so little left, it never causes a problem. Polishing the ramp of the pistol (don't remove metal) would also be helpful.
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Post by WesG Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:28 pm

Seems like a really light recoil spring? I've got about the mass on the slide, and the load is similar. I've been using either a 10lb, or 11 (not sure) variable. No problems with 200's. 160's were hit and miss. Going to try an 11 lb straight next.

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Post by jglenn21 Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:05 am

Stick with std recoil springs. Variable rate springs unlock too easily.. i agree the OP is a bit light on his recoil spring. 10lb should be fine..
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Post by Larry2520 Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:32 pm

8lb recoil spring seems a little light. I'd try a 10 or 12 lb spring. By the way it's a failure to chamber not to fire. Also a lot of people seem to get hung up on the measurements of the crimp, shoulder and a lot of other things. I only use my thumbnail to measure the bullet shoulder above the case mouth and I just crimp the shell moderately and don't measure it. I can't remember a time when I had a fail to chamber. Don't go so deep you drive yourself crazy.

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Post by Texasref Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:09 am

+1 on the crimp. It will solve a lot of the feed issues.
I also agree on the recoil spring. It doesn't control recoil as much as the main spring, but it does strip the next round from the mag and chamber. You need a little more force than your getting.

Just in case you don't, grab a chamber gage. It will solve a lot of problems.

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