Bullseye-L Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

What spare parts to have?

+6
Dan Webb
chiz1180
Al
SingleActionAndrew
CR10X
Merick
10 posters

Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty What spare parts to have?

Post by Merick 12/19/2021, 12:34 am

I was trying to organize my stuff, and realized I could probably pull a lot out of my range box to move to deep storage. But it also occurred to me I should get a spare firing pin being mine is an oddball spec part and might be hard to get in a pinch. 

What spare parts do you take to matches or keep in your range box?  What have you actually seen used?

Merick

Posts : 224
Join date : 2015-08-13
Location : Hutchinson Kansas

shanneba likes this post

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by CR10X 12/19/2021, 7:42 am

About the only things you might need at a match (that can easily be replaced so you can finish the match) for a 1911 is maybe a fitted extractor and firing pin stop (and at a much lesser possibility a hammer - fitted of course).  (Maybe an extra couple of recoil springs slightly lower and higher could also be useful if you mess around with your loads a lot.) Those are the only items I've seen that have broken or needed in a match and could be fixed without much of a delay.  

Anything else and you might as well have a backup gun in the car.  When I went to regionals, nationals, or extended travel matches, I generally have backup guns or even a complete smaller box set up. 

As for .22's or other CF's, it depends on the gun and the amount of work required to get it done. Again, for most cases another backup gun in the car is a far better alternative if one wants to continue shooting the match in a reasonable amount of time.

The less you lug to the line, the more energy and less distractions you have for shooting.  

CR

PS, as a match director I'm not shooting so the quickest method is that I offer them my gun(s) and ammo since I take my gun box to the range anyway for just such emergencies.  And no, you can't shoot your ammo in my guns, but you are welcome to use both.


Last edited by CR10X on 12/19/2021, 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

CR10X

Posts : 1707
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

troystaten, kc.crawford.7, chiz1180 and Dan Webb like this post

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by SingleActionAndrew 12/19/2021, 9:53 am

Between 9.1 and 9.14 I still have questions on when a competitor can switch to a backup gun. 9.1 only references single stage matches.

If I'm in a NMC that's shot as a 600/300 (is this a multi-stage match?) and my firing pin breaks in TF can I grab my backup gun for RF?

And in a 2700/900 if I break in the SF match I can't finish the rest of my SF strings in the SF match with my backup, but I could shoot the remaining NMC, TF and RF matches within the given 900 with my backup, correct?
SingleActionAndrew
SingleActionAndrew

Posts : 282
Join date : 2019-11-19
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by CR10X 12/19/2021, 10:10 am

If your gun is defective or inoperable you can change.  You can't change for no reason.

The rules can be your friend if you get to know them well.  If you take the word of others,  you might be led astray or lose points.

CR10X

Posts : 1707
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by SingleActionAndrew 12/19/2021, 10:24 am

Absolutely, and I remember or learn new things each time I read the book. I recently called my first line and enjoyed it.

But 10.9 seems to indicate a pistol can be replaced during slow fire if disabled, where 9.1 seems to say otherwise.
SingleActionAndrew
SingleActionAndrew

Posts : 282
Join date : 2019-11-19
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by Al 12/19/2021, 10:36 am

What I've seen broken or lost on the line is:
Firing pin stop, recoil spring plug, recoil spring, extractor. All of which I keep in my box, along with extra recoil springs, firing pin springs, firing pins, and extra pivot pins for the hammer, sear/disconnector, and one for the MSH.  Just tried to think of other Thngs that might get lost when under stress on the line.

Al

Posts : 590
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 67
Location : Bismarck, ND

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by chiz1180 12/19/2021, 10:44 am

For spare parts in the gunbox, I limit myself to batteries for the dot (2032 or 1/3N). Trying to rush and fix a gun on the line in most plausible circumstances seems like a bad idea.

I typically bring backup guns for 2700 portion of the match, I have not needed them yet, but I have been on the line on a few occasions when people have had to go to a backup.
chiz1180
chiz1180

Posts : 691
Join date : 2019-05-29

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by CR10X 12/19/2021, 2:11 pm

I don't understand the reference to 9.14 at all related to a disabled gun.  So I'd need more information on what the question is there. A National Match Course is a multi-stage match since it has different types of firing (SF, TF & RF) within a singe match.
 
9.1 means you have to use the same pistol unless there is a problem.  And all shots fire up to that time stand. If there is a problem, malfunction, defective cartridge or disabled pistol, it needs to be reported so the shooter can avail themselves of the proper procedure. 

10.9 is the procedure for a misfire or disabled pistol in Slow Fire.  It means you get the remaining time to complete the slow fire if the procedure is followed.  

Now 10.9 has the last line: "In case of malfunction where a pistol or revolver is disabled and must be replaced requiring a refire, the competitor will call the Range Officer."; which appears to be a misplaced sentence or one that was inadvertently copied into this section and creates some confusion with the "...requiring a refire.." under the procedure of "slow fire".  I believe this line should be under 10.10 (a) and without the "requiring a refire" under 10.9.  Even then it could be confusing, since the pistol could be replaced for the second string of fire if it failed on the first string.  Anyway, I think something needs to be clarified a little here. 

Also there is a referenced Equipment / Failure 10.7.2 referenced in the Index which is no longer in the rules as far as I can see.  Don't know what was ever there. 

However and regardless of the wording / typos, etc.; all NRA referees / Match Officials I've seen have allowed the replacement of a disabled pistol with another pistol for the continuation of firing (slow, timed or rapid) assuming the competitor notifies the CRO/RO and the pistol is determined to be disabled.    

10.10 (a) is the procedure for for a misfire or disabled pistol in timed or rapid fire strings if the tournament is to be fired under rule 10.10 (a). All shots fired to that point stand. See my comment above about the last line in 10.9. If the gun doesn't work, it can be replaced for the next string or refire string. 

10.10 (b) is the procedure for a misfire or disabled pistol in timed or rapid fire strings if the tournament is fired under 10.10(b) or in other words a "no alibi" tournament.  The tournament must state it will be fired under 10.10 (b) or a program correction stating the same must be posted before the tournament begins. Here you can do whatever you need to do to safely complete the firing of the required 5 shots (including inserting another magazine) for the string or refire string as long as only the required number of 5 shots are fired.   

Hope this helps.  Anyway, you can't change guns just because you want to, but in the event of a disabled gun, you'll get the opportunity to continue with another at my matches. Hopefully one day the rules will be completely edited.  In any event, just remember the rules are not necessarily designed to be completely fair, but to make sure its difficult for someone to, er, bend the rules in their favor by inducing malfunctions to get alibis for refires, crossfiring, shooting more shots than required, etc. 

CR


Last edited by CR10X on 12/20/2021, 7:54 am; edited 4 times in total

CR10X

Posts : 1707
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

SingleActionAndrew likes this post

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by Dan Webb 12/19/2021, 2:38 pm

CR10X said PS, as a match director I'm not shooting so the quickest method is that I offer them my gun(s) and ammo since I take my gun box to the range anyway for just such emergencies.  And no, you can't shoot your ammo in my guns, but you are welcome to use both.


I learned the ammo lesson the hard way. I was shooting the regional at the Cheif Wa-ka-dee range in Bristol. A fellow shooter a few positions down the line had a catastrophic dot scope failure on his .45. I loaned him my brand new Les Baer NM Hardball to finish the match. A string or two later I glanced that direction and to my horror, he had my brand new gun on the bench with a wooden rod in the barrel and was beating the shit out of it trying to remove a stuck bullet from the barrel. That ruined my match focus right then and there. 

Dan Webb

Posts : 61
Join date : 2021-04-10
Age : 48
Location : Negaunee, Mi

troystaten likes this post

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by Kermit Workman 12/19/2021, 5:52 pm

To muddy the waters, at Camp Perry in 2019, during the trigger weighting ,an Army competitor had his pistol fail the safety test on the grip safety. This was before any firing began.
 The Army competitor, ran to the Army armorer and had a repair made. He came back after slow fire began and fired within the remaining time. He had about 8 minutes.
 The conversion indicated that the pistol was repaired after it was DQ'd.
 One year at Perry I asked for a disabled pistol. The line officer wrote down the serial number of the disabled firearm.

Kermit Workman

Posts : 133
Join date : 2011-06-11
Age : 67
Location : Lenore, WV

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by Wes Lorenz 12/19/2021, 6:58 pm

One year at Camp Perry, I too asked to disable my wad gun due to a scope failure. They wrote down the serial number and I put it in my box. Pulled out the Hardball pistol/ammo and finished the 2700.

Wes Lorenz

Posts : 327
Join date : 2011-06-27
Location : Washington

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by Kermit Workman 12/19/2021, 8:19 pm

The reason I mentioned this is that the National Matches (and others) were fired one match at a time. All competitors fired the 22 slow fire in as many relays as needed. Then the 22 NMC (again multiple relays), then 22 TF then , 22RF. So it took a person all day to fire the 22 portion of the 2700.
 Now going back to the rules, I assume a person could disable a gun in the 22 NMC, then have the gun repaired in the interval between matches, and shoot Timed and rapid with the same gun.
 I always thought a disabled gun, if disabled during a 900 match, could not be used again in the 900. But I am not certain.

Kermit Workman

Posts : 133
Join date : 2011-06-11
Age : 67
Location : Lenore, WV

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by CR10X 12/20/2021, 7:20 am

A gun can be disabled and if repaired and reviewed by match official can be used again. 

Covered specifically under NRA Rule 9.5 ...." A pistol once declared disabled by the Range Officer shall not again be used for competitive firing until the defect has been corrected and until the pistol has been ruled as safe by the Chief Range Officer.

CMP section 4.3;  is not as clear, but they do not allow changing unless the pistol is disabled and ALSO the ability of a competitor to use a pistol that is safe and meets the requirements. So you would be able to have a pistol disabled, then repaired to a safe and operational state and then complete the match since you now have an operating and acceptable gun.  They do specifically state a disabled gun may be replaced if it does not delay the match.

So yes, you can get DQ'd at the inspection, get your gun fixed and get back to the line and start firing if you can / want to run around that much.  Or you can make sure your guns are OK and also have a backup available and get back to shooting.   For Perry and other matches with one gun / one day aggregates, I'd put the primary and backup in the box for that day anyway.
  
CR

CR10X

Posts : 1707
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by Ed Hall 12/20/2021, 4:03 pm

One detail to toss out, that I haven't seen in the rules:  One year at Camp Perry I was discussing having a Beretta as my backup Service Pistol to my Hardball .45 and was told that I couldn't change calibers.  I have never found a rule supporting that restriction, but haven't really searched, either.

Ed Hall

Posts : 930
Join date : 2012-09-11
Location : Adirondack Mountains

http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by CR10X 12/21/2021, 6:45 am

The thing about the CMP Service Pistol match is that the score sheet has the caliber and make of the gun on it.  If you had both pistols inspected prior to the match, it would seem that it would not be an issue.  Shooters should be able to edit or note it on the score sheet and continue.  

(But I think the CMP now has the armorer make a notation or serial number on the score sheet now? Didn't go last year so I don't know any of the recent procedure changes.) 

I've had both and 1911 and Beretta inspected and "taped" prior to the SP match more than 5 years ago for just such an event.  But again, procedures change.    

However, I have noticed that the CMP "officials" are generally way less informed or knowledgeable about the CMP rules as one would expect.  I've not done an exhaustive search on that particular issue, but on the basis of my recent reading of the CMP rules for this thread, I did not see anything that specifically addressed limiting pistol changes by caliber.  However, as I have said, the rules and match program should be reviewed for this specific issue before using anything I have stated above.

And that's why its becoming more and more important for competitors that fire in both NRA and CMP matches review and keep abreast of both sets of rules.  DO NOT ASSUME what's good for one is good for the other and you risk loosing points or getting DQ'd or having your score zeroed if what one "thinks" is not what the rule(s) actually is. 

CR

CR10X

Posts : 1707
Join date : 2011-06-17
Location : NC

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by John Dervis 12/21/2021, 8:14 pm

This year at Perry I asked the cmp armorer to weigh triggers on both my 1911 and a Springfield XDm so he did and wrote both SNs on the back of the scorecard. These are .45 and 9mm. My 1911 was the primary gun I wanted to use but I brought the other to have a backup in case of failure during the match.  He didn’t indicate there would any problem doing this if I had to.  But to Cecil’s point he had to check the rule book to verify that the XDm was on their approved list so maybe he wasn’t up on all the nuances. 

John

John Dervis

Posts : 254
Join date : 2012-08-29
Age : 53
Location : Sheridan, Il.

Back to top Go down

What spare parts to have? Empty Re: What spare parts to have?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum