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Still not many primers around

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jeb405
shoot308
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fc60
Jack H
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Still not many primers around Empty Still not many primers around

Post by djhoran 12/23/2021, 10:50 am

I am still seeing very few primers, of any type, for sale in stores. It hasn't gotten any better in the last year plus. A few online sites get them from time to time but they sell out quickly and are priced 3X of what they were just a year and a half ago. Fortunately, I have enough for a few seasons but I am a rarity in that regard. I shoot a LOT more of the action games these days than bullseye. Shooting falling steel, static steel, PPC, ICORE, USPSA, etc uses ammo at a much higher rate than bullseye. 1000 rounds in a weekend isn't abnormal for these games. I don't know many serious competitors who use factory ammo for these games. Attendance is down at many events due to the ammo/primer shortage. One local club is ceasing their monthly falling steel matches since attendance has dropped from 80 to 15. They may do one or two matches in 2022. The PA Steel League is changing to 1 relay instead of 2 with attendance dropping from 120 guns to around 80 or less.
   I have talked to several people who don't come around anymore because of ammo/primer prices. They say maybe they'll start shooting again when the situation changes. I doubt most will return as they will have found new, less costly interests. The manufacturers better get this issue resolved or the damage to the sport will be severe and long lasting.

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Post by PhotoEscape 12/23/2021, 12:09 pm

This forum's policy is not to bring political overtones into discussions.  So I'm going to limit my comment to just a statement that shortage in primers, powders and other reloading components is rather political issue than manufacturing capacity. 

AP
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Post by Coupebuilder 12/23/2021, 2:31 pm

Heads up Target Sports has 5000# Qty primers in stock for 599.00 per 5000 and other small match grade primers for 649.00

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Post by zanemoseley 12/23/2021, 6:45 pm

It's not that politics have directly affected the supply of primers but COVID and the election/new administration have greatly increased demand for ammo and supplies. The ammo manufacturers give preference to their own ammo production then sell primers which end up selling for big money. Just sucks for the shooters out there that rely on them.

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Post by SmokinNJokin 12/23/2021, 7:07 pm

I have heard that it’s a simple matter of demand skyrocketing and a ton of new shooters buying ammunition much faster than the supply chain can catch up. Not sure if thats true, but seems plausible. 
Add to that the scalpers, stockpilers who have been buying up everything just for profit, and you have a pretty big problem. We (bullseye shooters) don’t count, we were already hoarders to support a shooting habit and not for profit. Thankfully I am still working through my stock pile from a couple years ago when everything was cheap.
 It’s weird, lots of family members who had no interest in shooting before are suddenly catching the bug and stockpiling ammunition now at a time when it is the worst possible pricing. I think ammunition is somehow tied to a feeling of security…?

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Post by RodJ 12/23/2021, 7:30 pm

SmokinNJokin wrote:I have heard that it’s a simple matter of demand skyrocketing and a ton of new shooters buying ammunition much faster than the supply chain can catch up. Not sure if thats true, but seems plausible. 
Add to that the scalpers, stockpilers who have been buying up everything just for profit, and you have a pretty big problem. We (bullseye shooters) don’t count, we were already hoarders to support a shooting habit and not for profit. Thankfully I am still working through my stock pile from a couple years ago when everything was cheap.
 It’s weird, lots of family members who had no interest in shooting before are suddenly catching the bug and stockpiling ammunition now at a time when it is the worst possible pricing. I think ammunition is somehow tied to a feeling of security…?
^^^ This.  

You’re spot on.  Manufacturers themselves on YouTube have pointed out there’s tons of new gun owners and they all want ammo. They’re adding shifts and everything but there’s only so much they can do.

A random viewing if Gun(I’m)Broker(than I was before).com plus local internet private sales platforms have scalpers all the time.

And I think the “feeling of security” is spot on. And inflation rising. Days of a pack of 100 primers for $2.35 are long gone.

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Post by PhotoEscape 12/23/2021, 8:16 pm

RodJ wrote:  Manufacturers themselves on YouTube have pointed out there’s tons of new gun owners and they all want ammo.

So the question of the day - "Why are there "tons of new gun owners"?  Last time I checked population of the USA didn't increase even nearly at the same number as number of new gun owners.  And I am going to give you a hint.  For some unbeknown to me reason at the public range where I spent 20-30 hours a week, I see many more African Americans shooting, especially woman of all ages and mature couples, than I used to see couple of years ago.  In general I see many more aged folks of all backgrounds seeking proficiency for using firearms for personal defense.  And CCW classes have waiting lists!

As saying from my old country goes, - the one who has eye should be able to see!

AP
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Post by Pinetree 12/23/2021, 8:17 pm

"Thankfully I am still working through my stock pile from a couple years ago when everything was cheap."

Exactly.

Also, a thousand rounds in a weekend sounds exciting but I would go broke. Even when I was shooting skeet on a fairly serious basis I was lucky to go through 250 rounds a week.

The action pistol matches here are relegated to about 35 to 40 rounds per match, and my bullseye league is only shooting 30 rounds of centerfire per match.

Buy 'em cheap and stack 'em deep.


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Post by Drawman623 12/24/2021, 12:04 pm

Primer shortage isn’t explained for me by saying demand from new shooters has increased. Besides, most new shooters buy factory. So are they saying there are so many new reloaders out there that nearly every primer outlet cannot get any allotment? Stores local to me have had them in stock for years and years. Is Midway getting so many primers to sell that the smaller stores now get none? If this massive production is increasing…I think stores near me should be getting primers and selling out. That seems a rarity based upon what I’m being told. Better I should chase something easy to source like Pappy 20yr.

After searching for about a year I scored a sleeve of WSP’s at a cost of $430. Hopefully it is indicative of coming supply improvement.

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Post by jwax 12/24/2021, 1:34 pm

We need a way to reload primers!  Smile

Merry Christmas!
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Post by Coupebuilder 12/24/2021, 2:03 pm

Drawman623 wrote:Primer shortage isn’t explained for me by saying demand from new shooters has increased. Besides, most new shooters buy factory. So are they saying there are so many new reloaders out there that nearly every primer outlet cannot get any allotment?  Stores local to me have had them in stock for years and years.  Is Midway getting so many primers to sell that the smaller stores now get none?  If this massive production is increasing…I think stores near me should be getting primers and selling out. That seems a rarity based upon what I’m being told.   Better I should chase something easy to source like Pappy 20yr.

After searching for about a year I scored a sleeve of WSP’s at a cost of $430. Hopefully it is indicative of coming supply improvement.

New buyers don't necessarily need to buy primers to reload with to make them scarce, simply the fact that there are millions of more people buying ammo is enough, only a few companies make primers and supply everyone. Large primer manufacturer is going to fulfill CCI's 100 million qty primer orders before worrying about guys buying a couple thousand at home. So between new shooters, real supply chain issues from truckers to worker shortage (im guessing ammo manufacturing isnt a huge paying skilled job for most of the production) and people hoarding and scalping as they do every time there is a crisis or gun grab scare or mass shooting, pretty well explains it. Its just like it was in 2008 after sandy Hook and panic buying. 
Its a self fulfilling prophecy. Theres no reason guys working 9-5 should also be selling 30 lots of 5000 rds of CCI at 2x the usual cost other than taking advantage of the situation. Our local Walmart has the same 2 guys come in every day scouting and then they go sell on Gunbroker.

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Post by Merick 12/24/2021, 3:05 pm

In the face of waves of unprecedented demand, protection from import competition, being able to finance capital projects at record low rates, ammo manufacturers have been content to sit on their hands, and somehow remington went broke.


Last edited by Merick on 12/24/2021, 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Wobbley 12/24/2021, 3:08 pm

Here is a “forecast” type article.

https://www.fortunebusinessinsights.com/industry-reports/u-s-small-caliber-ammunition-market-101915
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Post by bihammond 12/24/2021, 6:28 pm

That Fortune Business Insights piece appears to have been written by a robot with a poor grasp of the English language. Published almost two years ago with even older data. I don’t think their forecast is even remotely correct.

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Post by PhotoEscape 12/24/2021, 7:12 pm

Yeah, Ashley, this is a paster!  However the notion is correct adjusted for current trends. 

Drawman623, - retail ammunition doesn't shoot without primers, unless you know the way to accomplish that in modern firearms.  With over 12M of new shooters, accounting conservatively 100 rounds per shooter, that is about an extra 1.2B primers (real number is much higher!!!).  Get the gist?

AP
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Post by Jack H 12/24/2021, 7:14 pm

I will have to try that "request a free sample"   Still not many primers around 2867566621
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Post by fc60 12/24/2021, 7:30 pm

jwax wrote:We need a way to reload primers!  Smile

Merry Christmas!
Greetings,

There is someone on the Cast Bullet Forum that is "reloading" primers. Apparently, with some success.

I read Mr. Frost's book on Ammunition Making and the mixing of the priming compound has me frightened enough to leave to the the professionals.

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by jglenn21 12/24/2021, 8:08 pm

The one DIY priming compound I'm aware of is corrosive
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Post by Wobbley 12/24/2021, 10:08 pm

Making lead styphnate is a multi step process ( I have Ammunition making by Frost) and is fairly straightforward.  However, if you mess it up it can become hazardous on several levels.  For this reason it’s made in small batches and you don’t use much in a primer.  What we do need is a primer manufacturer that is independent of an ammunition maker.  CCI started that way, but it is now part of Vista that owns Federal and Remington.
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Post by jglenn21 12/25/2021, 9:46 am

Good point. We only receive excess after all the ammo needs are fulfilled. Until that dies down supply will be small I suspect
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Post by shoot308 12/25/2021, 11:18 am

I work for a gun shop and can tell you everything is given out on allocation. The owner calls his reps everyday. You get what they give you. We are a pretty decent size shop and the last time we got pistol primers was 4 months ago. We have been seeing some powder shop up though. Just got a 8lb of H38, 4 lb of TG and some 1lb of Clays in.

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Post by jeb405 1/6/2022, 5:57 pm

I spend about 20 minutes a day watching sites that don't do notifications and have many notifications set where I can.  As mentioned above, Target Sports was getting small pistol primers periodically, I have 5k on the way.  A few months ago you never saw primers.  Then they started showing up and selling fast.  I know BE shooter might not care about rifle primers but just as an indicator CCI military SR primers have shown up and stayed available for quite a while for instance at Midway, although limited to 1k at an order.  Even some powders improving in availability.  See Titegroup regularly if not consistently and some high demand rifle powders like TAC.  And yes, many others almost never (Varget).  I don't have LGS that are much into reloading supplies.

For sure this isn't over and I wish it was back to pre-2020 conditions but I do not believe as dire as just a few months ago.

JB

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Post by straybrit 1/6/2022, 6:26 pm

Wobbley wrote:Making lead styphnate is a multi step process ( I have Ammunition making by Frost) and is fairly straightforward.  However, if you mess it up it can become hazardous on several levels.  

I'm not sure this is wise - but hey, whatever. While getting a dead tree version of that book is difficult and expensive it is available as a free download from archive.org. And yes - everything involved in the 'bang' part of the process is dangerous in more ways than I really like to consider.

Edit to add - if you want to be really scared however, try John Clark's Ignition.  Makes the stuff we play with look insignificant.

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Post by pgg 1/6/2022, 9:15 pm

straybrit wrote:Edit to add - if you want to be really scared however, try John Clark's Ignition.  Makes the stuff we play with look insignificant.

That is a terrific book.

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Post by orpheoet 1/7/2022, 8:05 am

I’ve managed to score 5k small and large pistol from Target Sports in the past 2 weeks. Not the greatest price but 1/2 of what my lgs is asking. I saw an article saying Vista is not offering primers for sale to the public for a while.
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