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Bullets are Keyholing

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Post by paulj Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:05 pm

I have a IZH-35m that I've begun shooting again after a long layoff and I've determined that the bullets are keyholing.  At first I though the holes were ragged because of a well used backer board but I put up a fresh one and most of the holes still aren't round.  I have no idea what the history of the pistol is as I bought it used from a gun shop about 12 years ago.  The barrel looks fine inside to the naked eye and so does the muzzle.  I'm thinking that it's worth a try to put a clean 45 degree chamfer on the barrel before I decide that I'm simply done with IZH.  Thoughts?

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Post by james r chapman Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:24 pm

Maybe leading? Run a bore scope thru it
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Post by Bigtrout Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:44 am

Try the same loads in another pistol?
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Post by bruce martindale Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:09 pm

Federal 22 tended to be undersize. Polished lead is shiny and looks fine.
Try a tight patch with kerosene or Kroil on a jag and see how it feels as to push. Look for slivers etc on patch. Good luck

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Post by JKR Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:20 am

If it has shot well in the past and there’s no evidence of damage to the bore, it’s very likely bore leading. I’ve had the same happen with two different pistols over the years. 
Do as Bruce has suggested and give it a good cleaning. 

JKR

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Post by paulj Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:57 pm

I'll clean the barrel and see if it helps.

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Post by paulj Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:24 pm

I gave the barrel a good cleaning and I'm now getting round bullet holes.  Thanks to all who replied.

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Post by fc60 Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:51 pm

paulj wrote:I gave the barrel a good cleaning and I'm now getting round bullet holes.  Thanks to all who replied.

Greetings,

I suspect that puts the rumor to bed that 22 barrels do not lead up.

For those of you without access to a bore scope, yes, 22 barrels do lead up.

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by JKR Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:36 am

fc60 wrote:
paulj wrote:I gave the barrel a good cleaning and I'm now getting round bullet holes.  Thanks to all who replied.

Greetings,

I suspect that puts the rumor to bed that 22 barrels do not lead up.

For those of you without access to a bore scope, yes, 22 barrels do lead up.

Cheers,

Dave

Yes. Often times one peek into your pristine bore with a bore scope will be the cause of sleepless nights!

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Post by BE Mike Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:47 am

JKR wrote:
fc60 wrote:
paulj wrote:I gave the barrel a good cleaning and I'm now getting round bullet holes.  Thanks to all who replied.

Greetings,

I suspect that puts the rumor to bed that 22 barrels do not lead up.

For those of you without access to a bore scope, yes, 22 barrels do lead up.

Cheers,

Dave

Yes. Often times one peek into your pristine bore with a bore scope will be the cause of sleepless nights!
In Russian pistols, maybe!
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Post by Wobbley Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:24 pm

In every pistol.  Both the ammo makers and the barrel makers advise cleaning 22LR firearms as often as you clean your CF guns.  For some reason, pistol shooters haven’t gotten that message.
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Post by bruce martindale Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:27 pm

I met Lones Wigger when I was at the OTC in Colorado Springs; he was cleaning his rifle with a brush. He said " they say not to do this, but l do"...Good enough for me. 

Also powder burns in proportion to bore resistance. More resistance ( leading , powder fouling etc) more pressure. Pressure expands the shell to the chamber wall. all at the same time the slide is trying to extract the shell. I clean to restore reliability.

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Post by bruce martindale Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:28 pm

That's also why oiling the shells helps reliability

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Post by SteveT Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:00 pm

I've been told by a couple of pretty good rifle shooters they don't bother cleaning the bores of their 22LR rifles. Admittedly they are lowly service rifle shooters who only shoot smallbore & sporter to keep in practice through the winter.

If I ever get shots off call, maybe I'll clean the bore of my 22 pistols, but so far it hasn't been needed. Any of my 22 pistols will shoot a quarter size group from a rest. Once or twice a year I clean the chamber and bolt of my 22 pistols and run a patch through the barrel to make sure no crud gets pushed into it. That's enough to keep them 100% functional and accurate.
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Post by Wobbley Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:41 am

Olympic level rifle shooters DO clean their bores.  The carbon ring in front of the chamber causes fliers.  The ISSF target has a very small ten ring. And if decimal scoring up is used, the winner at the final often has a lot of 10.5 and higher.
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Post by SteveT Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:36 am

Yeah, I'm sure you are right for elite level shooters. I question the value for the remaining 99% of us.

There is a risk of damaging the bore, chamber or crown with cleaning. More cleaning, more risk and wear. 

If I was shooting at the level of the Olympics, or even in the running for the National Championships, I would probably clean the barrel of my 22. I would also have my guns re-built annually and I would go to the Eley test range and buy cases of Tenex matched to my gun. As a self funded shooter with a full time job, I have to evaluate the time and money against the benefit. I think most of the people on this list would benefit more from dry firing 20 more minutes than they would cleaning the barrel of their 22. I know I would.

I am only talking about my experience with 22 target pistols and a little bit with a couple of rifles. CF gun barrels need to be cleaned, at least occasionally, to maintain accuracy, less often when shooting jacketed loads and clean powder, but still necessary.
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Post by bruce martindale Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:46 am

Recall too there are two 22 bullet alloys, standard " black bullets" are like o.1% Sb while Tenex and that class has harder bullets with 1%. The latter have reduced leading which leads top shooters who use them to state no need to clean. Surface conditions matter too so each case is different. I had an old German toolmaker tell me he never cleaned his smallbore rifle. So I followed that advice with my Anschutz match rifle. About 3/4 through the winter season, l couldn't hold the A17 10 ring in prone. I went to clean the gun and found a choke bore just ahead of the chamber, VERY hard to pass a brush through, then it got easier. I had a hell of a time cleaning it, silver streaks and chunks came out. His gun HAD been cleaned and polished for 30 years. As they say YMMV....

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