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1911 Recoil behavior

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Wobbley
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Post by Cazmont Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:37 pm

Has anyone noticed a difference in recoil between a carbon steel and stainless 1911? I mention 1911 because they have more steel mass then other pistols. This may seem far fetched and perhaps it is but…consider bicycles. Many riders prefer a steel frame to aluminum as they find the steel “springier.”








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Post by Jon Eulette Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:02 pm

There is typically no difference. Frame to slide fit, barrel fit and bushing fit govern recoil characteristics.
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Post by Cazmont Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:06 pm

And weight as well. Hmm…a little time with the scale seems in order.
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Post by Jon Eulette Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:24 pm

Typical BE pistol has standard 5” government slide, optic rail and optic. The typical Optus is UD and not as many Aimpoints. Aimpoint 9000 is a beast weight wise. Barrel fit will have more impact on recoil feel than the slide weight or optic. Pistols with heavy optic and poor barrel fit will still recoil like crap. 
You can add square shouldered firing pin stop, 23# mainspring and Aimpoint 9000 and still have a pistol that recoils harsh in comparison to a pistol with properly fit barrel. Yes it makes that much difference.
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Post by Cazmont Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:52 pm

An excellent point Jon, I'm sure. However, between pistols with equivalent fit and tuning, increased weight, especially towards the muzzle will decrease felt recoil. 
None the less, one still wonders if a difference of compression and tensile strengths of the two different steels might effect felt recoil. I imagine one could consider the relative lubricity as well but I hope that has been worked out by the manufacturers metalurgists by now. The impulse at ignition is quite strong and of very short duration and could disturb the steel at a molecular level?
I'll continue to look into it and appreciate your response.
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Post by WesG Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:02 pm

I can't imagine there are any properties of alloy steel and stainless that would make any difference in the feel of the pistol. Unless you have an aversion to rust on your hands.

Stiffness is all but identical for any of the iron based alloys, regardless of hardness. A piece of hot rolled low carbon steel will flex the same as a piece of 440C stainless at 60 RC. There is a difference in resonance, I don't remember the details, but unless your gun rings like a bell after each shot I don't think it will matter.

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Post by james r chapman Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:12 pm

Only placing both against your nose while firing will tell the true story.
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Post by TonyH Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:25 pm

https://youtu.be/z5JvchsfnmQ
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Post by Jon Eulette Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:56 pm

TonyH wrote:https://youtu.be/z5JvchsfnmQ
Tony, you’re killing me lol.
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Post by Wobbley Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:49 am

Well, SOME stainless steels have a lower density than carbon steel, but scarcely enough to make a difference.  The reason bicyclists would prefer steel frames to aluminum is the difference in elastic modulus.  But if they went to carbon fiber farms they’d get the light weight and the elastic modulus they like.
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Post by Wes Lorenz Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:07 am

Wobbley wrote:Well, SOME stainless steels have a lower density than carbon steel, but scarcely enough to make a difference.  The reason bicyclists would prefer steel frames to aluminum is the difference in elastic modulus.  But if they went to carbon fiber farms they’d get the light weight and the elastic modulus they like.
Ha, ha, Seattle's local carbon fiber "farm" is Boeing.

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Post by Asa Yam Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:20 am

Wes Lorenz wrote:Seattle's local carbon fiber "farm" is Boeing.
Wes (and all),

Boeing sells carbon fiber, it is leftover material (usually scrap) from 787 or 777 manufacturing processes.  Believe the process for reuse feeds the stuff into a shredder, then using it as fiber for new products.  Strength is reported as being "close to the parent material".  NOTE:  "close to" does not mean "can be used in airplanes as a structural material."  Think "recycled" fiber is used in less sensitive applications, such as car seats or car parts, ornamental items (i.e, carbon fiber grips) are another possibility.

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Post by inthebeech Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:43 am

[quote="TonyH"][url=https://youtu.be/z5JvchsfnmQ]https://youtu.be/z5JvchsfnmQ[/url][/quote]

Did you see the solitaire game on the manager’s display!
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Post by Jack H Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:16 pm

I have two Nelson set ups.  One on a Baer frame, one on a Range Officer.  There is weight difference between the two frames.  I put an aluminum rib on the heavy frame, and a steel rib on the light frame resulting in near equal overall gun weight.  Without doing that, the weight difference was noticeable to me especially with heavy frame and steel rib.
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Post by WesG Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:47 pm

Asa Yam wrote:
Wes Lorenz wrote:Seattle's local carbon fiber "farm" is Boeing.
Wes (and all),

Boeing sells carbon fiber, it is leftover material (usually scrap) from 787 or 777 manufacturing processes.  Believe the process for reuse feeds the stuff into a shredder, then using it as fiber for new products.  Strength is reported as being "close to the parent material".  NOTE:  "close to" does not mean "can be used in airplanes as a structural material."  Think "recycled" fiber is used in less sensitive applications, such as car seats or car parts, ornamental items (i.e, carbon fiber grips) are another possibility.
Saw an article where they're using 'recycled' wind turbine blades to build pedestrian bridges.

Yeah, wind turbine blades don't last forever ... Sure is awesome to see them hauling them thru Austin though.

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Post by Wobbley Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:50 pm

Most of those are glass fiber composite.  There aren’t many landfills that take them anymore.  So they need to find other ways to recupycle them.
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