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Practice vs match

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Arthur
wealth212
TomH_pa
hotshot9
BE Mike
NukeMMC
Jack H
Jwhelan939
Texasref
-TT-
orpheoet
Jon Eulette
Ed Hall
Wobbley
jwax
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Practice vs match Empty Practice vs match

Post by jwax 2/15/2022, 7:25 pm

This topic must have been discussed before, but my search didn't find it.
I practice, sorry, train at home. About 40' in the basement, .22 only. After some settling in, I manage 1" groups usually, with the occasional flyer.
At a club match, with friends that I shoot with every week, there are jitters. My concentration isn't anywhere near while shooting at home. Can't really call it "match anxiety", because the matches aren't important at all. My shot process just falls apart.
If I go to the club alone, shots are not as bad, but still not matching the home range accuracy, and thought process.
Maybe go to the club more often and train?
Any thoughts on what I can do to get the matches to match the practice?
jwax
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Post by Wobbley 2/15/2022, 8:12 pm

Mental management.  Basically you have to do everything the same so it becomes “mechanical”. Then concentrate on re-creating a mechanical performance for every shot.  Whether it is a match or practice session it should be identical.  Just do it!
Wobbley
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Post by Ed Hall 2/15/2022, 9:23 pm

Maybe you need a "Happy Place:"

Have you tried a "Happy Place" yet?

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Post by Jon Eulette 2/15/2022, 9:49 pm

Tooooo many shooters do not train in a way that replicates their match shooting plan.
KISS principle and simple is the best. You should not be doing it any differently at home, the range or the match. Use/train the same process. I like to refer to the “light switch”. You flip on the switch to shoot, and flip it off when your done; changing targets, scoring, etc.
Learn how to get in and out of the FOCUS.
Also learning how to quiet the mind is crucial to good scores and personal best.
It’s a never ending learning process of self improvement.
Jon
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Post by orpheoet 2/16/2022, 5:59 am

I have a similar problem with a league I'm in. Slow fire includes the 3 min prep time and the commands are rushed relative to a "real" match. Sometimes parts are left out… I average about 3% lower.
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Post by jwax 2/16/2022, 8:48 am

Thanks all!
Ed, going to the Happy Place approach! Wow! Your comments are 17 years old, but the idea seems to be valid today too!
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Post by -TT- 2/16/2022, 11:18 am

At our range, we say "the buzzer takes 10 points", which is just about 3% in fact!

IMO you should never score in training. Focus on what you're training, and fuhgeddabout the numbers.

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Post by Texasref 2/17/2022, 7:54 am

When you say the matches don't really matter, that's not entirely true. Our sub-conscience takes over a little and no matter what we think, shooting in front of friends for score matters. Only because we want to do well. Otherwise why practice at all if not to improve?
Jon said it well, do the things in practice as if it were a match. When match day comes it's easier to fall back on what we have built into habits.

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Post by Jwhelan939 2/17/2022, 8:15 am

Do you have jitters through the whole match? Or just in the beginning?I had real bad issues with rapid heart beat at the beginning of a match This worked for me....ymmv.

Just remember you have ten mins in sf. If your heart is taking time to slow down, wait it out. I've had days where I don't even start shooting until there are only three minutes left.

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Post by Jack H 2/17/2022, 1:28 pm

Sometimes you just need to have a word in your head like "this" shot.
Not last shot, or next shot, THIS shot.  Or string.

I recall doing well in an EIC through TF.  A range officer said simply "nice target" about my TF center just repaired.  Those two words ruined my thoughts and RF was horrible.

So ignore the environment, other shooters.  Just think "this" shot.
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Post by NukeMMC 2/17/2022, 3:38 pm

Old-school EIC shooters called it a "Knee-high breeze", because it blew the "Legs" out from under you.

Practice begets competence, competition begets excellence.  Keep at it and your attitude toward matches will be more apathy than anxiety.
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Post by BE Mike 2/18/2022, 8:46 am

There is a difference between practicing and training. Expert level is a good time to train for the mental part of the game. I studied a lot of material, both written and audio/ visual. It helped. Every shooter deals with pressure, even when it isn't apparent. I trained with distractions to help me focus on the fundamentals. You need to start competing with yourself and ignore the results of others. If you don't already have one, you need to develop a written shot plan. That is pretty much step one. Good luck!
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Post by hotshot9 2/21/2022, 4:33 pm

Wow i thought i was only one in this situation! i was once long age expert in PPC. early to mid 80s. now at my mid 70s and bad eyes, went to bullseye. practice is great, 90s most of the time, week club shoots mid 80s. contest 60s and 70s! heart rate so fast feel like i am shooting for my life! i see jwax is already expert. i cant get out of marksman. was thinking of giving up, but i see i am not alone. so what is a happy place? and what is ymmv? are they legal? should i bring my flask of jack with me? any help would be appreciated.

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Post by TomH_pa 2/21/2022, 8:27 pm

Don't give up
Don't worry about the score or your classification
Try to improve your fundamentals especially the trigger
It's hard it will take some time
Don't give up
Don't ask me how I know.

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Post by hotshot9 2/23/2022, 3:20 pm

thanks! was just at my range today. seems that when i come up on target and continue to apply steady pressure on trigger works much better then holding and waiting. make any sense?

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Post by wealth212 2/23/2022, 6:27 pm

TomH_pa wrote:Don't give up
Don't worry about the score or your classification
Try to improve your fundamentals especially the trigger
It's hard it will take some time
Don't give up
Don't ask me how I know.

Uhmmm...
Wisdom!!

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Post by Arthur 2/25/2022, 5:19 pm

Every shot you take in this sport is just training. Home range or big match, all just training. No one is shooting back at you.

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Post by jwax 2/26/2022, 9:40 am

hotshot9- Ed was referring to this link:
https://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=12040#p52976
By imagining your surroundings as your comfortable place to shoot, you can bring those surroundings to the matches so training is the same as matches. Shooting is 95% mental.


And as mentioned, a solid repeatable shot process is essential.

A wise High Master told me in his early days that he was told to dry fire- a lot. He was several weeks into it when he noticed on one shot the dot did not move at all, right through hammer fall. Oh! That's what it's supposed to look like!

Is that what your dryfire looks like?
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Post by bruce martindale 2/26/2022, 12:15 pm

Dryfire n the prep period and maybe even into the SF stages. You can alternate DF and live during SF, or even play Remington Roulette.

I usually leak points in TF due to a large ss of concentration during the string. By feel l know one or two shots felt, and were different.

RF is usually cleaner as there's no time to contemplate dressing it up.

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Post by chopper 3/6/2022, 5:11 pm

When shooting practice, Some say don't worry about the scores you shoot which makes sense. Is it okay to keep track of where the majority of your shots go like I shoot 30 shots on a target and I count the shots that broke inside the 9 or 10. I like to say I follow my process on every shot, but I can lose focus when other shooters disturb me. I have a hard time turning it on and off sometimes when a subtle change comes my way.
 Stan

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Post by jwax 3/6/2022, 7:10 pm

Scoring makes no sense in training. Scores are to compare your match performance (Way different than training scores- the point of the original post) with others. Scores are also handy for looking at your consistency.
In training, you'll benefit more from shooting at blank paper and making your groups smaller.
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Post by Kermit Workman 3/15/2022, 6:11 pm

1.) Develop a shot plan or shot sequence. Write it down and put it on the lid of your gun box.
2.) Abort or stop the shot at the first negative thought.( The dot is dancing outside the black. or Am I holding too long?)
3.) Stretch your muscles ( in place) if feeling the jitters.
4.) Everyone has butterflies. It is up to you to get them to fly in formation.

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Post by CR10X 3/15/2022, 6:18 pm

Well, I would suggest some "training" for match shooting that does involve scoring.  (Just covered this over on Target Talk as well under the subject of match nerves.)

For one of the weekly training sessions, substitute this training.  Take only 10 rounds to the range.

For the first sessions, you can take all the time you want, dryfire between shots, before, whatever.  But you only get 10 rounds for score and you do no other live firing that day. Keep and track your scores and time and make notes on the session (thoughts, prep time, first / last shot values, etc.)

As the weekly sessions progress, reduce the amount of time you allow yourself for the 10 rounds, continuing to track your scores. Again, for these sessions there is no other live firing allowed.  You can do dryfiring, exercise, whatever, but those are still the only rounds you have that day (session).

When you get your time down to 5 minutes without decreasing your score average, you should have a good perspective of the mental outlook needed to shoot a slow fire string.

CR

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Post by chopper 3/15/2022, 6:49 pm

Cecil, would this be more of a training than a practice session where you shoot to see how your training is paying off. I like this and will use it because it really makes you focus on those fundamentals. It also would be easier to remember and write down since there are only 10 quality shots going downrange, Plus the dry-fires would be done to your best ability, no sense in doing it half assed.
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Post by CR10X 3/15/2022, 7:52 pm

I would call it a "training" session for developing the mental / focus part of shooting a shot for score under pressure (which is what a tournament is anyway - just a whole bunch of them strung together).  

I would call it a "practice" session for the shooting / shot process, cause we really don't have time to "fix" anything when you start timing the 10 shots. Again,  just like shooting a shot for score under pressure.

Another option is to go to the range, set up your box, have a 3 minute pre period and then shoot 30 slow fire shots just like in a match.  Do it on separate days, using .22 / CF and .45 only.   Again, just like the pressure in shooting a tournament like 3 day state, regional or nationals.  Track your scores and know your average.  Then when you are actually shooting a match you can have some perspective on what to expect / feelings / being used to performing on demand.  You gotta know what you can walk up to the line a do from a stone cold start. Be sure to do in in the rain and wind when you can.  Don't just go to the range on fair weather days.

CR

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