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Hammerli 208 issue

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CR10X
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Hammerli 208 issue Empty Hammerli 208 issue

Post by Bestdentist99 Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:37 am

I put approximately 3,000 rounds through my Hammerli 208 without a hitch, but recently I’ve been having an issue with an ejected case getting caught between the slide and the scope mount as shown in the photos. The gun is clean and this doesn’t happen consistently, but it happened 5 times during this training session out of 70 shots taken.
Can someone chime in on the solution?
Thank you.Hammerli 208 issue C1610210
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Post by DA/SA Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:04 am

When was the last time you replaced the recoil spring? 

As the spring gets weaker, the ejection pattern changes. It may have changed enough to where the case is ejecting more upward than out to the side and is being blocked by the rail.

A new spring may alter the ejection pattern and get you back on track.

The same may be true if you have just installed a new spring. It may not be ejecting with enough fore with the new spring, and that may be causing the issue.

Just a guess...
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Post by Ed Hall Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:22 am

There are several things that come to mind:

-Magazines
-Extractor
-Headspace in slide

If this is a new issue with no changes to anything, I would suspect the headspace.  Through wear the top of the headspace around the firing pin hole will peen inward forcing the case to sit lower.  Along with that deformation, the portion of the slide across from the extractor tends to peen away, opening the headspace some and allowing the case to slip away as soon as its free of the chamber.  With the slide off the gun, place a case into the headspace and see if it is held well or easily falls out.

You can check the magazines to make sure the cases aren't hitting there instead of the ejector, by looking at the very front top tip of the left rear lip.  If it looks shiny and is peened at all, the cases are probably ejecting off the lip instead of the ejector.

Examination of the extractor should show sharp, very defined corners.

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Post by Bestdentist99 Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:36 pm

I’m including a few more photos of the slide and breech face. I’ll attach pictures of the mags in the next post.Hammerli 208 issue C7f53110
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Hammerli 208 issue 60a44610[url=https://servimg.com/view/20074236/17]Hammerli 208 issue C7f53110[/url]
Hammerli 208 issue 09351410
[url=https://servimg.com/view/20074236/16]Hammerli 208 issue 60a44610[/url]

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Post by Bestdentist99 Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:38 pm

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Post by Ed Hall Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:10 pm

Headspace: It looks fine.  None of the areas shown much wear at all, if any.

Brass:  Why does the brass look all scratched?  Maybe it's a normal amount, but the pictures make it stand out more.

Barrel/frame: Why does there appear to be damage above and markings below the extractor slot?  You might also check the lower corner of the extractor slot where it meets the chamber.  Could this have moved into the chamber a bit?  If so, maybe that is what's scratching the brass?

Extractor: It doesn't look quite as sharp as new, but should still be OK, and it might just be the pictures.

Great pictures, BTW!

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Post by messenger Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:54 pm

I am having similar problems from a 208 international. Stove pipes, failure to extract with CCI SV and Aguila. Seems to shoot ok with Eley, SK, and Wolf. Mr. Hall, Would you be interested in working on this pistol? Already replaced the recoil spring and no difference.

Bill
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Post by CR10X Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:58 pm

Most of us simply cut off the scope mount even with the rear of the barrel and just kept on shooting.

CR

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Post by Ed Hall Sat Apr 02, 2022 5:11 pm

messenger wrote:I am having similar problems from a 208 international. Stove pipes, failure to extract with CCI SV and Aguila. Seems to shoot ok with Eley, SK, and Wolf. Mr. Hall, Would you be interested in working on this pistol? Already replaced the recoil spring and no difference.

Bill
I'm afraid I would not be able to, Bill.  I'm not a business and NY requires any handguns in my possession to be licensed to me. I believe Jon Eulette works on Hammerlis and KC Crawford may, as well.  Both are members of this forum.  KC might even be near you - same state, anyway.

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Post by Ed Hall Sat Apr 02, 2022 5:14 pm

CR10X wrote:Most of us simply cut off the scope mount even with the rear of the barrel and just kept on shooting.

CR
As have I.  But, I also like to remedy any other issues, if I'm having such.  I do recommend taking the rear section off the mount.

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Hammerli 208 issue Empty Hammerli 208 Extraction Problem

Post by Roddy Toyota Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:33 pm

Hi BestDentist,

In the one pix that I've included here, there is something wrong.  Notice the distance from the Extractor tip to the rim of the case.  The gap is huge, maybe twice the distance than it should be.   Did you change out the Extractor?  The shape of it is like nothing I've seen in the past.  All of the factory Hammerli Extractors that I've ever seen have a rounded shape to them and the gap is nearly non-existent.  Anyway, since the entire side of the Extractor is visible from the outside of the Hammerli Slide, look and see if possibly your Extractor is broken. 

Cheers,
Roddy

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Post by Bestdentist99 Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:47 pm

I did not change anything. I bought it as is and it looked new or barely shot.

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Post by Roddy Toyota Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:26 pm

Hi,

Here's a pix of one of my Hammerlis, it's a 208S, but my 208 and 215 Extractors look the same.  Note how close the Extractor Claw is to the case rim.  Your Extractor has been working by luck, and the problems were just waiting to begin.  Because of the large gap in your Extractor/case rim, the Extractor just isn't holding the case rim tight as the case hits the Ejector.  In nearly all semi-autos, the Extractor must hold the case rim tight to the bolt face so when the case rim hits the Ejector, this allows the fired case to to pivot/swing out.  If the Extractor isn't properly holding the case rim, then there isn't anything to help the fired case to pivot/swing out of the ejection port.

Cheers,
Roddy

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Post by Bestdentist99 Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:12 pm

Thanks for the picture Roddy. The extractor seems to be pivoting fine and snaps back when released, and don’t feel any strange movement in it, but I see what you mean. Do you know where I can get a replacement extractor? How do you replace it? In which direction should the pin be driven out and is there anything I need to know to properly remove and install it?
By the way, I looked at all of my 6 mags and each has a shiny spot at the left rear uppermost tip of the lip.
Hammerli 208 issue 0dc49410
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Post by Ed Hall Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:44 pm

That minor shining of the magazine lip tip may very well be a result of the current trouble rather than the cause.  If the cases were hitting there regularly, they would show much more peening.  I'm quite confident in Roddy Toyota's diagnosis.  If I'd have looked a bit closer, I should have noticed the gap.  I did notice the shape wasn't round, but took that as just a different replacement.

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Post by Jack H Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:57 pm

Roddy beat me to it.  I have seen that extractor gap in HS Olympics where the soft aluminum slide let the hook forward as the slide wore out.  Lots of stove pipe fails.  Only solution was a new slide.
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Post by Bestdentist99 Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:51 am

So as I understand the diagnosis is a replacement extractor (with a different shape) possibly broken, or simply ill-fitting sitting too high on the case rim.
I ordered an extractor from Red Feather Outfitters (which does look more rounded in the picture).
Can you chime in as to how to remove the extractor-which direction the pin is tapped out (right to left or vice versa) and a technique of getting a new one in.

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Post by Bestdentist99 Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:05 am

Gentlemen, the mystery deepens.
I just took out my 208S and compared it to the 208.
The extractors are completely different. The extractor on the 208 is about a third in length as compared to the 208S. It is also, staked differently.
However, the biggest difference is that on the 208S, the claw, in fact, sits very closely to the breech face, as Roddy’s picture shows and only moves laterally (horizontally).
On the 208, when the slide is open, the extractor sits twice as far away, but it moves both out - horizontally and when pressed inward - in toward the breech face.
When the slide closes, the claw moves inward to the same distance (about half in) to closely grab the case, as in the 208S.
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Post by Bestdentist99 Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:07 am

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Post by Bestdentist99 Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:08 am

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Post by Ed Hall Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:28 am

Looking at the pictures, I'd say Jack has hit upon the trouble and you can see the area of the extractor that is causing the damage I mentioned in an earlier post.  For that extractor, you should be able to use a Jeweler's type screwdriver to push the plunger away from the extractor and lift the extractor out of the slide.  Then carefully keep track of the plunger and spring.  The fix may not be an easy one.  If it is due to missing material in the slide, it could be costly, but there are possible options.

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Hammerli 208 issue Empty Hammerli 208 Extractor Problem

Post by Roddy Toyota Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:31 pm

Hi,


Your Forum name is "bestdentist," so are you a real dentist?  If so then you have one of those small, hardened picks; these are great help in moving the Extractor Plunger out of the way.  I've drawn a pix of the Extractor and it's Plunger.  Use the pick between then Extractor and the Plunger as shown by the arrow.  Push the Plunger back which will expose the Extractor.  Shake the slide and the Extractor should fall out, or use a tweezer to lift the Extractor out of the Slide.  When you release the pressure on the Plunger and the Extractor is out, the Plunger and Spring may go flying so watch out.  Once the Extractor is out I think you'll find that the Extractor Leg that is held in the Slide will be worn or broken.  When you ordered a new Extractor, did you order one for the Original 208 International, or the current models?  Your 208 is from the original production of the middle 1960's, which were a copy of the  HammerliWaltherOlympia.

Cheers,
Roddy

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Post by 285wannab Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:45 pm

What I see in 2 pictures of your barrel is your chamber has what it looks like rings in it.  That doesn't look right.  It could be causing a drag on your empties as they eject.   Does your ammo pass the plop test?

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Post by Bestdentist99 Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:16 pm

Yes, Roddy, I am a dentist and do have lots of hardened picks.
Thank you , so much , for the drawing and the explanation.
I ordered the extractor, but it’s the wrong one. I ordered the long extractor from Red Feather Outfitters, but that will fit my 208S not the International.
Can you suggest where I can get the correct extractor?
Thank you!
PS 285wannabe yes, the ammo passes the plus test.

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Post by Black_Talon Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:58 pm

Bestdentist99 wrote:
Can you suggest where I can get the correct extractor?
Judith Billharz has them, but I seem to remember hearing that she stopped shipping to the US.

kontakt@schiesssport-billharz.de
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