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Pistol Induced Motion

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Jon Eulette
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Post by Jon Eulette Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ok, so basically we all stand angular to the target and attempt to hold perfectly steady while executing a pistol shot one handed.

What area of our bodies can attribute to unwanted movement?
Grip
Grip strength must be consistent to get consistent groups. Inconsistent grip can contribute to pistol moving left or right especially with Euro grips. Weak thumb lends to high shots at 1 o’clock on the long line.
Wrist
Breaking wrist up or down. Can be from flinch, poor trigger control, not understanding how to keep it firm when shooting.
Elbow 
My elbow hyperextends naturally, so not much of an issue for me, it’s solid. Some people not getting it firm enough. But not Marine Corps tight lol. I think they over did it back in the day.
So you need to learn how to make it rigid.
Shoulder 
High shoulder or low shoulder? Some hold it high and are successful and some (myself) force it low for scapular support.
Lower back
Weak back equals poor torso support. As we shoot a one day 2700 the lower back fatigues. I know that as match proceeds I lean slightly more to the rear to counteract the fatigue.

Ok the affects of these areas:
Grip fundamentals are extremely important to shooting consistently good groups/scores. Learn how to grip!
Wrist contributes to high or low shots or for right handed shooters the dreaded 7 o’clock shots when trigger finger not being your best friend.
Elbow looseness or lack of tension can cause sustained fire recoil recovery issues. Makes shooting successive shots inconsistent.
Shoulder health is really important for shooting great scores. If it’s medically problematic I feel for you, mine are in need of surgical repair.So if it’s healthy it’s much easier to have a decent hold. As we age how long we can hold shortens. Got to break the shots sooner. Holding to long contributes to fatigue and low shots. Also can lead to heeling shots in effort to correct the drooping arm.
Back muscles need strong abdominal/core muscles to help reduce muscle fatigue.

So what’s happening at the pistol? If you can have stable body/arm position then not much is happening at the pistol. Easier to shoot good shots. But when brain sees the pistol oscillating, moving up and down, shaking side to side, it gets more difficult to squeeze the trigger uninterrupted. The resultant errors from not accepting our hold have large affect on the muzzle of the pistol. If you imagine the shoulder as a rigid pivot point and the affected muzzle as the moving point from shooter induced error/errors, you now have angular velocity. This is a measurement of the muzzle in an arc from the shoulder. If the muzzle is moving away from the X ring as shot is broken, the resultant error down range is magnified. The shot error is truly magnified from this movement. How many times have we heard someone say the shot looked good when it broke, but the shot is out in the white? They were probably moving towards the center of the target as the shot broke, but the muzzle was moving angular (to the side) and muzzle flipped bullet along its path.

So having said this, if we really are shooting the fundamentals, we will not make these errors. Most common error I see is holding too long and breaking a shot that should’ve been aborted. 
Another thing that doesn’t help is having a trigger that’s too crisp. Lends itself to forced shots.
Your training/shooting mentality really needs to reflect accepting your hold and squeezing the trigger with purpose. It will lessen the poor shots.


I look forward to comments.


Jon
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

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Post by chopper Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:37 pm

mhayford45 wrote:A consistent grip pressure is one area I work on every practice session. I have found that if I can keep my dot steady and in the same spot within the circular viewing area that this promotes the following:
A steady grip pressure. For the dot to remain in the same spot grip pressure must be consistent.
The wrist must remain firm or the dot moves out of the spot 
The arm and elbow must remain firm and extended or the dot moves out of the spot
The thumb must be engaged and remain firm or the dot moves. 
I also like a high positioned thumb as this aids my trigger finger to move more freely
When the shot breaks, i want the dot to remain in the same viewing spot or to return quickly.

BTW John Zurek taught me to keeping the dot steady with the viewing area. I took me 3 years to understand why.
   Mark, by saying you engage your thumb do you mean some sideways squeezing ? Do you put your thumb as high as the safety ?

chopper

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Post by mhayford45 Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:02 pm

My thumb is up near the top of the grip. The tip of the thumb should be straight and not rolled downward. The pressure is back toward the web of the hand... a tight V.

mhayford45

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Post by Jon Eulette Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:44 pm

I would like to mention that Zurek has ginormous hands. He has more thumb heel pressure than most of us. I have found that older hands need more thumb contact to keep more heel pressure. If you can do it without the thumb itself that’s fine, but we need to really understand about weak thumb pressure results on paper and not blaming it on something else. It’s part of our analysis of how the shot looked, how the shot felt, and what it looks like on the target. 
Good trigger squeeze is number 1 and good grip is a very close 2nd.
Jon
Jon Eulette
Jon Eulette

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Post by chopper Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:29 pm

Jon, about a year ago I started using more of my hand to grip with. It does help me and I tried turning the gun in a little more to get the fatty part of my heel involved also. I had to adjust that a little to get better trigger control about 3 months ago. I think I'm getting it down better because the dry-fire is looking good and slow is improving. I need more range time with TF and RF and to watch the indicators to see what I need to do to improve. I have to stop hurrying in RF and follow my shot plan so I can get on the trigger and not get behind. I know it could be mental which causes misses; 10s,Xs,9s, then a miss or two, it frustrates me. Thanks for this topic and helping us guys, and I really appreciate your great gunsmith work for me. 
 Stan

chopper

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Post by rburk Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:37 am

I am in my third year of Bullseye shooting.  My scores have been improving, but my 45 scores have been about 40 points lower than my 22 scores.  When I saw Jon’s post, I thought, could it be this is what I need to work on?

As Greg Walloch suggested, I printed it out and read it over a bunch of times.  Then I began working on my grip and forearm with my dry firing.   Basically, I tightened my grip considerably, and worked on keeping it consistent.

My next match I improved my 45 score by at least 30 points.  At the long line, I was finally able to call most of my shots.  Based on previous experience earlier in life with my other sport (archery), I wanted to get a few matches under my belt to make sure the change I made is for real.  That is why I waited this long before responding to this topic.

The scores at my last three matches have been well into Expert class, so I’m pretty confident in making these changes.  I also found that my 1911 shoots a lot better than I was willing to give it credit for.

Thank you Jon for sharing this with us.

rburk

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Post by bruce martindale Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:35 am

I'm finding that the allowable grip pressure without tremor is variable not only from day to day but during the day. Added tension and anxiety over match difficulties only adds to it.

Going by the feel or grip pressure that worked last week or month seems to be a dead end.

bruce martindale

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