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Consistent Concentration or lack of……

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Consistent Concentration or lack of…… Empty Consistent Concentration or lack of……

Post by bmize1 8/14/2022, 9:48 pm

Every now and then, this happens, more often, it is a shotgun pattern 94-98 with 1-3x and usually an 8 somewhere.

Maybe I need to read a few books on controlling my brain.
Seems the harder I work at it, the worse my scores are.

Consistent Concentration or lack of…… Da2fd610

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Post by CR10X 8/15/2022, 6:50 am

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Post by jimsteele 8/15/2022, 7:12 am

Alright, THAT'S what I need in my logbook.

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Post by straybrit 8/15/2022, 10:53 am

cr10x wrote:primary focus was on the decreasing wobble area

Yeah - now there's a good question. If I try to focus on steadying the wobble I end up overgripping, which both makes the wobble worse and screws up the trigger pull. Only on the long line though, dry fire and short line it's less of an issue. Yes - I'm probably overthinking it and I should dry fire more so that it becomes pure muscle memory - but I've reached the age where my muscles appear to be slow learners :-)

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Post by CR10X 8/15/2022, 11:47 am

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Post by chopper 8/15/2022, 12:12 pm

CR10X wrote:Specifically, what "it" are you working "at"?

Just asking because right here we have a perfect example of what needs to be reviewed, studied, and rehearsed as much as possible.  I would start with a complete description of each of the shots for both strings of this target.  

For example: 

Shot 1, sights were aligned as the target tuned and appeared to be centered. Wobble was was getting smaller, but coming towards the center from the left side of the 9 ring.  Trigger pressure was consistent, but not really noticeable since my primary focus was on the decreasing wobble area.  As the shot fired, sight alignment indicated an 10 or X, slightly left; sights rose upward and slightly to the left and recovery came back to the target area around 8 o'clock between the 9 and 10 ring.  Trigger was fully under control and pressure began to build again as the wobble center began moving to the 10 / x ring area. 

Repeat 9 more times.
  When I kept a better journal, it was mostly about slow fire and dry fire. I would rarely journal individual shots of a string of RP or TF at least as detailed as you mention. I would write down mostly if I shot to the best of my ability and sometimes I did write down if I was loading the trigger as I was recovering. Generally those shots were early and high and it still happens sometimes. It's tough coming into the center from right left or below it, my brain is so  accustomed to approaching from above. I really have to concentrate on RF and for me loading the trigger is number 1, I don't know any other way yet. Bmize1, for me your above target is great, nothing wrong with a 99-5 especially if a RF.
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Post by bmize1 8/15/2022, 9:02 pm

This was a RF target.
I have no shot process other than hold center as best you can while continue to press trigger.
I guess I don’t understand the “shot process” I see here regularly.
That’s why my SF is weak. 
If I shoot SF at a TF pace, scores are better usually.
TF and RF I’m fairly consistent in the mid 90’s with the occasional clean in 22 and 45.

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Post by chopper 8/15/2022, 10:34 pm

bmize1, I like to shoot my slow fire like my TF and RF first shot. My process if it can be called that, is get into position with stance, grip etc. then relaxed breathing. Then when commands are issued with "ready on the left" I raise my gun off bench to a 45 degree ready position. Then "ready on the right" take 1 deep breath while raising the pistol above the bull. When "ready on the firing line" it's 3 seconds before the target turns, I'm bringing the pistol down while exhaling half the lungs or what feels comfortable. I'm loading the trigger and centering sights in center of bull and fire as soon as possible. I've been improving my slow fire this way instead of holding and trying to pick a perfect shot. Sometimes I break the shot at the turn, but never more than 2 seconds, then I might abort.  Guess it's how you feel and how good you can hold, I had to shorten my process because I'm getting older. If I can shoot a 9 or better on the first shot of sustain, I'll treat my slow fire the same way and repeat it 9 more times.
 Stan

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Post by Wobbley 8/16/2022, 11:58 am

A shot process is nothing more that those things you do to fire a “good” shot.

A “good” shot is a shot that is on call, wasn’t rushed or forced from a stable platform.  It can be a 10 or an 8.  

Your process can be complex when you start dealing with stance, grip, arm strength, stability, sight picture, wobble, trigger control and a small host of factors.  Write it down…use it as a checklist not a “do list”.  If something breaks down re-develop that.  Ultimately many will become second nature.  Then the process will become shorter.  When you get to the higher classifications it becomes “lift gun, shoot shot”
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Post by chopper 8/16/2022, 1:00 pm

Wobbley, you're right my stance, position, and grip were written down now they are in my memory. My shot itself is still young like I wrote, but the more I use it and dry fire with it the more it's etched in me. If I need to change any part of it, I'll just have to learn and train over again. Very true what you say, it becomes a check off list and helps me become what I want to be. Thank you.
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Post by bmize1 8/16/2022, 1:15 pm

I do have a “process” I follow that is basically the same and above.

Where I’m lost is the great/good target and then a mediocre target.

The above target was shot RF and the dot just seemed to come back to center and stop wobbling, finish trigger pull.
Next target, a wobble the size of the 9 ring.
I do understand, the harder I “try” the results are not good.
I learned a long time ago, for me anyway, don’t look at the target between strings, it always goes down hill if I have a great 5 and look, the next five are often 8 9 9 9 10.
 I’m trying to understand why such differ outcomes when doing the same thing over and over.

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Post by CR10X 8/16/2022, 1:34 pm

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Post by straybrit 8/16/2022, 1:55 pm

CR10X wrote:And I also have some personal suspicion that this concept change is one of the major issues with some (maybe even a lot of) shooters getting from Expert to Master. 

Holds up hand.

When i can focus on 'clean trigger and trust the aim' I shoot master scores. When I 'wait for center then pull it quickly' they are sharpshooter scores. Averages out to expert. Once you know the basics of operation of a handgun, and let's face it it isn't complex, then it's all mental.

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Post by bmize1 8/16/2022, 3:19 pm

I was not saying I wait for it to stop wobbling then press trigger, just sometime is comes back to center and stays there.
I normally wait for the wobble to get smaller and continue to press trigger.
I’ve always heard, keep the trigger moving and I try to do that once I start adding pressure.
I’ve tried, with poor results, to break the trigger coming down into the black.

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Post by Wobbley 8/16/2022, 11:47 pm

One thing m working on is learning to initiate and complete the trigger release wjphen the wobble becomes “acceptable” rather than waiting until it gets to its smallest.  My “acceptable criteria (at 25 yards slow fire) is about the 10 ring and reasonable centered.  In engineering we had an expression “Better is the enemy of good enough”.
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Post by mikemyers 8/17/2022, 12:43 am

I look at this target, and imagine what it would have been had the sights been adjusted a little higher.  Then there would be 9 excellent holes in a group, and one "oops".

By ignoring the "oops" and concentrating on the rest, it would seem to me to be quite good.  

Look at the target from the back, and you will see what I'm trying to say, a nice cluster of 9 holes, and one stray hole headed off to Mars.
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Post by CR10X 8/17/2022, 6:57 am

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Post by mikemyers 8/17/2022, 10:27 am

CR10X wrote:.........It appears that there are people that continue to not accept the concept of only looking at, talking about and visualizing what you want to perform again and ignoring what you would not like to repeat..........
In my world I learn from my "mistakes" whether it be photography, or design, shooting, or racing.
I suppose if I had a good shooting coach life would be different, but I don't.
I often try something different to see if it helps or hurts.
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Post by Jack H 8/17/2022, 2:07 pm

If you are concentrating, you are thinking.  If you are thinking you are training. 

We all make mistakes.  Two mistakes here...long buried in my files.
Consistent Concentration or lack of…… Ruger2-tgt

So why did I save this picture?  Mostly for the humor of it.  And that there are eight very fine and called shots from this gun in my hand
Consistent Concentration or lack of…… Ruger2

I called the funny shots too.  I won't say what I called the one.  They were not shots 9 & 10.  I kind of take pride in the eight shots from a Ruger of all things.  But also that I can laugh at the mistakes and move on.

So what is my point?  I don't know.  Maybe it's just eight good shots can happen.  Try for ten.
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