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Who Are the Next Generation?

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john bickar
Chase Turner
Caster3845
chopper
chiz1180
RodJ
SaraiEsq
bruce martindale
rsp
Soupy44
Jon Eulette
John Dervis
msmith44
hengehold
Wobbley
Orion
BHeintz
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BE Mike
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daneferrari
Allen Barnett
JRV
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Post by RodJ 9/6/2022, 10:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

The question is a bit nebulous. As a new shooter I read Gil Hebard’s and other authors’ books and training manuals. And I read many many posts here by High Masters and others who have honed skills and methods and share them. 

I wonder whether the newer participants - such as myself - will absorb, learn, seek, and discover the physical and mental skills that are passed on to us. And I wonder whether we will feel and follow an urge to experiment and develop new methods.

Thinking that the latter is best done after attaining a significant modicum of proficiency in the fundamentals. Or do “we” younger / newer shooters experiment sooner?

All this rambling is in hope of inspiring shooters to become inquisitive and teachers going forward. Of course there’s a danger of trying to share what we *think* we know and lead others astray. How to avoid that?

These thoughts are courtesy of my seeking instruction and coaching from one of the most helpful Bullseye L forum members. If he is successful, I hope that I might be a resource some day. 

Onward, through the fog! (a favorite expression of mine)

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Post by bruce martindale 5/6/2023, 10:13 am

It takes available time, disposable income, and determination. These are all in short supply these days. Ammo is expensive and sometimes hard to get, travel isn’t easy; We used to have local shoots close by…thats how I started. Oh, and someone INVITED ME to come and try. We should all be ambassadors of the sport.  Now I have to drive 2.5 to 3 hours. Calling it tPrecision makes it sound elitist as compared to Conventional. Two hands isn’t necessarily easier either. Bullseye is the foundation for proper shooting technique and should be emphasized. shooting poorly but fast seems to attract people under the Americans With No Ability act

Training and education aren’t generally available, having tires and testicles doesn’t mean you can shoot this game. I wrote my book to boost training and encourage participation . Being available to coach helps too. I think it’s working because my students are winning Most Improved league awards and others tell me that they are improving too

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Post by messenger 5/6/2023, 1:11 pm

Pinetree wrote:I wish that I would have taken up this sport/hobby years ago, when my eyes were still decent.

One of the guys in our league is the grandson of another member, he's 18 and quite good. It's a shame that the younger generation doesn't take up the sport, because the rest of us are pretty much all retirement age.

One of my other hobbies is flying radio controlled airplanes, and we're seeing the same dilemma.. most of the members are well into their seventies, and it doesn't seem like the younger generation is interested.. for lack of a better word.


The younger crowd is only interested in instant gratification. I used to compete on a national level in model airplanes ( pattern) but I'm afraid the advances in drones have taken over due to the lack of skill needed.

Bill
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Post by BHeintz 5/6/2023, 1:53 pm

I started shooting bullseye when I was 21. Almost all of my friends back then owned guns and enjoyed shooting and hunting. I couldn't get any of them to even try shooting a bullseye match. I started out as a trap shooter, and never could get friends envolved in that either. In my opinion the large majority of people seem to have no interested in formal/orginized sports of any kind. Golf is a pretty popular sport, my dad worked at a golf course after he retired. The course would sell several hundred memberships each year, but they only had about 80 golfers in the weekly league matches. And they would have very few golfers participate in the city and state matches. The only growing sport I see with younger people is disk golf. I hike at a local park with a disk golf coarse, and a bunch of people play there. But disk golf is free, so I can see why it's getting popular.

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Post by BE Mike 5/7/2023, 8:51 am

BHeintz wrote:I started shooting bullseye when I was 21. Almost all of my friends back then owned guns and enjoyed shooting and hunting. I couldn't get any of them to even try shooting a bullseye match. I started out as a trap shooter, and never could get friends envolved in that either. In my opinion the large majority of people seem to have no interested in formal/orginized sports of any kind. Golf is a pretty popular sport, my dad worked at a golf course after he retired. The course would sell several hundred memberships each year, but they only had about 80 golfers in the weekly league matches. And they would have very few golfers participate in the city and state matches. The only growing sport I see with younger people is disk golf. I hike at a local park with a disk golf coarse, and a bunch of people play there. But disk golf is free, so I can see why it's getting popular.
Don't forget pickleball! Times change. Competitive bullseye pistol shooting has never been super popular among unsupported civilians because of the difficulty, as well as, the time, and expense involved (just like competitive golf). Bullseye pistol shooting used to be a big deal, way back in the day. Manufacturers used to look to champions to endorse products. Just the two words "Camp Perry" in an ad used to sell products. Nowadays our society, with the help of many news outlets and celebrities, puts a stigma on any gun owning or shooting.
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Post by Orion 5/27/2023, 9:11 pm

JRV wrote:NRA Competition and the CMP have social media presences and engagement that can only be described as “underwhelming…” both organizationally and in terms of unaffiliated athlete/personality channels.  That might be hampering the (for lack of a better word) marketing of the sport to newer non-military shooters.  YouTube and Instagram algorithms inevitably expose new shooters to the vast wealth of practical shooting content out there.  

Can you imagine if a manufacturer like Ruger paid a personality like 22Plinkster to make a video about shooting a 2700 with a Mark IV Competition model and a SR1911 target?  Or if CMP issued a similar invite when it was launching the .22 EIC program? Instant exposure to dozens or hundreds of thousands of recreational shooters. 

This is 100% correct. When I analyze failed products/services for fortune 100 companies, poor marketing execution is often at the root of the problem ~30% of the time. I've always thought this was the case with CMP/NRA as historically bullseye/precision pistol has been on the tail end closest to zero of the distribution of marketed sports. 

Changing the sport rules to make the barriers to entry easier as the main strategy is a poor strategy.
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Post by msmith44 5/28/2023, 12:38 pm

Orion wrote:
Changing the sport rules to make the barriers to entry easier as the main strategy is a poor strategy.
Care to elaborate exactly what rules were changed to make entry easier? I suppose I'm too dense to recall them.

-m-

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Post by bruce martindale 5/28/2023, 2:04 pm

Any safe ammunition for CMP Service Pistol is a disgrace.

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Post by Wobbley 5/28/2023, 3:09 pm

There’s a reason the CMP no longer issues ammo in any EIC. The service matches do, but not 45. Times change, requirements and rules change. We need to be a little more open to changing things.
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Post by msmith44 5/28/2023, 4:09 pm

bruce martindale wrote:Any safe ammunition for CMP Service Pistol is a disgrace.
Wow! Over the past couple of years I've discussed PP/Bullseye with scores of new shooters and not one person mentioned this as a reason why they won't get involved in PP/Bullseye. I'm not really sure they had even heard of the CMP or knew what a Service Pistol is.

So, let's focus on the NRA rules. 

What NRA rule change created a barrier for new shooters participation in PP/Bullseye? 

If, we can't identify even one then perhaps we should think of an on-ramp to make it easier for new shooters to participate in PP/Bullseye? 

Maybe we could start by asking SaraiEsq, NWSteve and the other new shooters who have identified themselves on this Forum why they started shooting BE. What are the benefits that PP/BE provides that they can't find elsewhere? What need does PP/BE meet? Somehow I think it's not that they like to hear things go bang.

PP/BE is a mature product on the decline and it faces a plethora of obstacles to growth. Some are internal, others are external. Some are the result of changing demographics and culture, others are economic/environmental. 

You don't get answers unless you ask questions and in that process you begin to identify a target group who might find benefits in participating in PP/BE. You don't develop successful marketing campaigns by starting with a solution (Ruger ads, more prizes) before you identify your audience, find out what they want,  and learn how to reach them. 

Orion posted a Bullseye Clinic event in Houston held in April. I asked him about the turnout? Crickets. So, I'll add this: What was the response of the people who showed up? What was the program?



-m-


Marvin Smith


Last edited by msmith44 on 5/28/2023, 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by chiz1180 5/28/2023, 4:40 pm

bruce martindale wrote:Any safe ammunition for CMP Service Pistol is a disgrace.
So bruce where did you get your hard leg and with what score?
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Post by Jon Eulette 5/28/2023, 5:06 pm

chiz1180 wrote:
bruce martindale wrote:Any safe ammunition for CMP Service Pistol is a disgrace.
So bruce where did you get your hard leg and with what score?
What the heck does his score have to do with anything? He doesn’t like that CMP went away from factory 230 gr ball. 
I wasn’t fond of the change either. I compare it to he current woke mentality we’re seeing on the left. It’s like tearing down statues.
All my legs were HARD with high of 288 at Perry with issued 230 ball.
We shooters of the “OLD” 230 ball just roll with the punches now. Doesn’t mean we like it.
So his opinion has nothing to do with scores, hell for that matter I know old timers that never “legged” that aren’t happy about the changes either.
Jon
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Post by hengehold 5/28/2023, 5:11 pm

I wanted to get into BE pistol for the last 20 years but some things were barriers for me:
1. Equipment requirements. Service pistol had to be an A1 style 1911 and the model I had was equipped with a bevertail grip safety so would have to buy other guns in order to be eligible. I was not able to just shoot what I have already. The loosening of the equipment restrictions by the CMP to allow more service pistol models and features has been a great step forward in my opinion.

2. Recommend shooting more short course matches (25yd with reduced SF targets). While I prefer to shoot full course, the short course may be more supportable and allow for BE events closer to home. 

I have brought several new shooters to BE matches and their motivation seems to deflate after most of their shots are off paper at 50yds.


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Post by Jon Eulette 5/28/2023, 5:11 pm

To get back on point, either you like precision shooting or you don’t.
In So Cal most new shooters are older. Not common to see parents bringing their kids anymore. We have a new shooter local lady tearing it up and loving it.
My son was raised around shooting and has dabbled at a few 1800’s and EIC .22 matches. If he really liked it he could probably be a 2600 shooter. He’s got a great foundation and skills but no interest.
So in the last 15 years it’s been mostly older shooters entering the sport.
Jon
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Post by msmith44 5/28/2023, 5:43 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:
In So Cal most new shooters are older. Not common to see parents bringing their kids anymore. We have a new shooter local lady tearing it up and loving it.
My son was raised around shooting and has dabbled at a few 1800’s and EIC .22 matches. If he really liked it he could probably be a 2600 shooter. He’s got a great foundation and skills but no interest.
So in the last 15 years it’s been mostly older shooters entering the sport.
Jon
This is the kind of stuff that's useful. Jon identified three important data points: Mostly older shooters. Woman. Parents not bringing kids. So questions: 

Re: Older shooters? Middle aged? Retired age?

Re: Parents? Why not the kids? Is this something they don't want the kids talking about at school? Social stigma? Day away from the kids? Husband-wife? Home defense orientation? I know some Drs. who are shooters that don't advertise it at work for "obvious reasons."

Re: Woman? Age? Profession?

For all groups: How did they learn about the range and what brought them there?

Jon, did you talk to any of them? What did you find out if you did? Why are they there?

I agree you either like it or you don't but you don't know until you try it. And getting the right people (aka prospects) to try it and have a positive experience is the way to increase PP/BE participation. Most of this is just common sense you know.


-m-

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Post by bruce martindale 5/28/2023, 6:00 pm

I’m doing everything I can to increase participation in this sport, I teach, I coach, I invite new participants and bring them with me . I ran a statewide championship program as there were no official options. Indoors seems to do well. That said, it’s tough to keep people interested. Ammo shortages forced changes in the Distinguished Revolver program. I get it. It has no effect on most of the competition population.For CMP MATCHES AT PERRY Issued ammo went away but commercial was required for the nation’s premiere matches. Next Reloads and softball were allowed for CMP to address the competition from  high performance 9s. I see no reason to DQ anyone based on cosmetics and that’s a good change in my opinion. Use of almost any gun isn’t going to win but does let you play. I see the recent ammo changes as a reduction in prestige of those matches. Some things should be left alone. Perhaps l was harsh. Yes I went Distinguished with military and commercial ammo. None of the above affects new generation of shooters. Politics and economics do.

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Post by Soupy44 5/28/2023, 6:30 pm

Concerning kids, and as a kid who grew up on ranges, and have 2 boys, I agree they need to go to the range. For me, babysitting is the issue. My wife, though completely pro gun, isn't interested in spending a day at the range watching the boys. And none of our babysitters have agreed to watch my boys at the range.

My parents said there was a solid supply of range child care for me 30 years ago. I am definitely struggling.

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Post by John Dervis 5/28/2023, 9:45 pm

Soupy44 wrote:Concerning kids, and as a kid who grew up on ranges, and have 2 boys, I agree they need to go to the range. For me, babysitting is the issue. My wife, though completely pro gun, isn't interested in spending a day at the range watching the boys. And none of our babysitters have agreed to watch my boys at the range.

My parents said there was a solid supply of range child care for me 30 years ago. I am definitely struggling.

I don't know you or your kids so you can use this info to decide what is right for you but I'll tell you what I did.  You will also want to take this with a grain of salt because I have three daughters and to date, none of them have taken up my hobby of shooting but I think I gave them a good example to follow if they would ever want to try it.

Beginning somewhere around age 9 or 10 I would bring ONE of them to a small match with me.  These were usually a 30 round re-entry league we have around here but I did take them to a 900 sanctioned league too.  One kid is much easier to manage than two or three and a smaller (read shorter) match was better than stretching things to a full day 2700.  They would sit behind me while I was shooting watching and they would come with to score and repair targets etc.  At the 900 league they were even put to work by operating the target turning system when the buzzer would sound so they were engaged.  Safety elements were discussed when applicable so they knew what to do and where to be when the line was hot etc.  My kids are pretty attentive so they would follow rules and procedures well so that is one thing every parent has to judge for themselves on when the timing is right to bring the kids along. 
I did this for a few years and eventually would bring two of them with me but that was mostly for the year end picnic that the re-entry league had in the fall.  They are now 20, 19, & 16 so they have better things to do than go to a match with me but I still think I gave them a positive experience of Bullseye and of shooting in general which was my goal more than getting them to adopt my hobby. 


Good luck with your kids and I hope you are able to find something that works for you.

John

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Post by Jon Eulette 5/28/2023, 9:57 pm

My kids comment was about kids that came to shoot the matches, not just being present. Many really great shooters started as kids; McNally, Hayes, Bickar…..
Jon
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Post by Soupy44 5/28/2023, 10:12 pm

Probably should have mentioned my boys are 2 and 4.

My wife brought them to a match for lunch this year. That range has a bunch of open space, a pond, and a creek. They had a blast. That's how I grew up for the most part.

John, completely agree. As a kid I called the line a few times, took pictures, handed out awards. After the match I'd shoot for 10-15min off a bench (smallbore rifle). I shot my first smallbore prone "match" off a bench at 6-7yo.

I'd also note that my local matches require you to be 14 and 16yo to participate. The guntry club I practice at the minimum age is 12.

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Post by rsp 5/28/2023, 11:01 pm

I am 31, which unfortunately makes me the youngest person on the line at many local matches. Cecil (CR10X) said something at a recent match that resonated: "You can't make somebody shoot bullseye". There is a type of person that sees it and goes, "That looks hard. I want to do that."

That was spot on for me. Several years ago I didn't know what Bullseye was, and I saw somebody at the local indoor range shooting at 25 yards with a .22 pistol that looked like it was from outer space (I now know it was a Pardini)... one handed. They were the best shooter I had ever seen. Keep in mind that at that time I shot at 7 yards which I was told was normal distance for pistols. Yeah, I started with a lot of "tactical" shooting advice and bad habits. Staying on paper at 25y seemed hard.

(Edit: I say I didn't know what bullseye was... that's not 100% true. I had at least heard the term before in gun reviews where the reviewer would say "I'm not a Bullseye shooter" or "this is a combat gun not a Bullseye gun" as an excuse for whatever accuracy result they were about to describe. Which is also some of the best advertising Bullseye ever got)

I didn't have the guts to go up to that shooter and ask them any questions (they seemed very focused), but it stuck in my head. That set a whole new bar for me in terms of what good pistol shooting looked like and it was always in the back of my mind that I wished I could do that. I would say "I could never do that, that's too hard" but deep down part of me thought "Some day".

It was a couple more years before I actually got up the nerve to look up *where* and *how* to shoot a BE match. And yep, I sucked. But I just wanted to keep trying. That's still how I feel now. I may never be M or HM but every match I've ever shot, I've had that one sustained fire target or that one slow fire shot that I know would've been easily within my capability to do better, so I can keep chipping away at my personal best.

I think there is generally a low awareness of Bullseye in my generation and younger. I don't think it's a matter of changing the rules. There is not a crowd of people going "well gee I would shoot bullseye but only if they allowed X, Y, and Z". If anything any rule changes that make it "easier" make it less appealing to the type of person who will actually latch onto the sport. It is a publicity problem. There are some people who will never like BE but there are plenty of people who WOULD like it, just haven't heard of it yet, or don't know where they can go to shoot a match, or don't believe they're good enough to try (mistaken belief that there is a lower bound to participation).

Little do they know BE is actually a fantastic game to shoot since you show up to a match and by golly you get to SHOOT ALL DAY! What's better than that?

Maybe one factor to the lack of awareness is that Bullseye shooters do not self-promote very much in this modern social media era. There are about a zillion videos on YouTube of action pistol shooting from hat-cams. Note, I do not intend to diminish the action pistol sports but rather to point out an area where we could learn from them! The thing is... if you are an action pistol shooter you can upload your footage and you won't be compared to a national champion because a national champion wasn't at your local match shooting the same local stage setup. Heck you might've been local stage winner in your division, so you feel like you're pretty good! Whereas in BE, the great majority of us go... "jeez I only shot 800, great for me, but who wants to see that? Somebody who's *actually* good would've shot 880." So the MKs, SSs, low EXs are certainly not going to put themselves out there on YT. We stay quiet and try to keep learning -- which is a wise thing to do on an individual basis -- but not necessarily good for general awareness that 1. the sport exists and is still being shot, and 2. that regular people can show up and shoot matches regardless of where they are on their skill development path.

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Post by bruce martindale 5/29/2023, 4:55 am

rsp, thank you. That was an excellent summary and it took time and thought to write. We need more of that here, but not just here.

"It's too hard " is a prevalent thought and an easy way to fall into other disciplines IF you're already marginally  involved with shooting.

Resources on how to perform in our sport are limited. While I wrote a book on it, many will never see it. I think it's time for Shue TV or other greats to promote it on YouTube

ShueTube!

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Post by SaraiEsq 5/29/2023, 7:53 am

msmith44 wrote:

Maybe we could start by asking SaraiEsq, NWSteve and the other new shooters who have identified themselves on this Forum why they started shooting BE. What are the benefits that PP/BE provides that they can't find elsewhere? What need does PP/BE meet? Somehow I think it's not that they like to hear things go bang.

PP/BE is a mature product on the decline and it faces a plethora of obstacles to growth. Some are internal, others are external. Some are the result of changing demographics and culture, others are economic/environmental. 

Marvin Smith

(flexes fingers over keyboard)

Since you asked....

I grew up on a farm but my family wasn't into hunting.  I watched the A-Team and Miami Vice on television.  I read books about the Vietnam War and sword fighting and terrorism.  I played shoot 'em up arcade games like Area 51 and Doom, and got to shoot a pistol at a state police camp when I was 16.  Fast forward a few decades.  Some friends arranged a "couples Glock shoot" and I spent the morning in the woods shooting everything from a .380 to a .357 revolver to four different sizes of Glock 9s to an AR-15 to a 12 gauge shotgun.  Loved it.  A few other opportunities (like every two or three years) popped up.  I became involved in disaster response training (CERT mainly) and I volunteer as a crisis actor (aka victim) for active shooter/disaster scenarios.  

I nearly die from COVID-19.  And, like a lot of people, decide I am done wasting time being afraid to try something new or something that I have always wanted to try.

So, I arrange to go to the range with one of my friends who is a gun guy.  Great time, shot a number of different pistols, did well.  A month passes, I arrange to go to the range with one of my friends who is a police officer.  Great time, shot a number of different pistols, did well.  Two weeks pass and I want to go to the range but I don't have anyone to go with.  I ask another friend which range he would recommend if I -- novice shooter with confidence issues -- wanted to go shoot alone.  I go.  Friendly people, great RSO, great time.  Start going every two weeks.  Discover how expensive ammo is.  Ask around and borrow a .22 pistol -- a 1961 Ruger Standard Pistol.

Now, I'm going to the range twice a week, usually in the morning when I am almost the only shooter there.  Result: one on one time with the RSOs who are more than happy to give me advice and encouragement and explanations.  I have conversations with other staff (including combat veterans) who are patient with my many dumb questions and proven shooters.  And, lo and behold, I get better.  So, I go looking for shooting drills that are more of a challenge than a silhouette at 10 yards and I find some drills which are pretty cool (including one hand and weak hand drills) and work on those.

I end up going to the NRA National Championships at Atterbury to watch the "precision pistol" matches, whatever those are.  (I was friends with Stephen Lucas before he got the Pistol gig which I how I learned about it.)  Folks were friendly and happy to explain things.  I was taking pictures and was able to go down range to see the targets and scoring and all of that.  I don't realize that I'm watching High Masters who have a zillion rounds down range.  I just see people with pistols (including a Mark I like the one I have been using) get Xs at 50 yards.  

And I think, "Maybe I can do that too."  

So I swing by my local range after watching the .22 match, run the silhoutte target out to 25 yards, and shoot at it one-handed. Exhiliarating.  

I go back and watch the .45 match a few days later.  Chat with Jon Shue, after the match, while he is kindly looking at my pistol.  Although he has just lost the match by ONE POINT (which I didn't realize) and has been shooting for, like, 15 DAYS, he is still friendly and helpful and encouraging.

A month later, I'm shooting in my first 2700 and taking my first ever shot at 50 yards -- with a match grade Mark III Ruger, ammunition, box with all the cool stuff -- all of which is borrowed from someone I had never met before.  

*****

What need does precision pistol fill for me?  The need to excel and have a challenge.  Jagged holes at 5 yards are lovely but a X at 50 yards?  Priceless.  ;-)
SaraiEsq
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Join date : 2022-09-25

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Post by RodJ 5/29/2023, 9:45 am

True story teller. A great quality in a lawyer.

RodJ

Posts : 845
Join date : 2021-06-26
Location : TX

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Post by chiz1180 5/29/2023, 10:40 am

Jon Eulette wrote:
chiz1180 wrote:
bruce martindale wrote:Any safe ammunition for CMP Service Pistol is a disgrace.
So bruce where did you get your hard leg and with what score?
What the heck does his score have to do with anything? He doesn’t like that CMP went away from factory 230 gr ball. 
I wasn’t fond of the change either. I compare it to he current woke mentality we’re seeing on the left. It’s like tearing down statues.
All my legs were HARD with high of 288 at Perry with issued 230 ball.
We shooters of the “OLD” 230 ball just roll with the punches now. Doesn’t mean we like it.
So his opinion has nothing to do with scores, hell for that matter I know old timers that never “legged” that aren’t happy about the changes either.
Jon
Simple question out of curiosity. I don't recall Bruce being a military shooter, nor am I. His statement is basically saying shooting service matches is no longer have the same worth. I was simply seeking a perspective of the matches from before my time. If you are just going to use the form as a platform to advertise your gun smiting (with no support banner either) and be critical of those whose opinions are different than your own, that's fine by me. Hope to see you at Perry.
chiz1180
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Post by chopper 5/29/2023, 10:53 am

I think the new generation is anyone who wants to shoot at a target and hit it. My personal experience came about 50 yrs ago after hunting  pheasants for the day. I had my 357 Blackhawk in the truck, and always wanted to hit this big Cottonwood tree, at the end of a field I just hunted. Distance about 350-400 yards away, took me 4 shots to "guess" the elevation but hit it and nailed it five out of the next 8 shots. I was hooked. 
 While I was shooting indoors at 50 ft. another shooter said I was pretty good at hitting the bull on a B-3. That's when I was introduced to Bullseye. It was our clubs 300 League and all the shooters young and old used 2 hands except for about 5 who shot with one hand. I shot 2 handed for about 2 years when I was invited to shoot with the Postal League, but told me it was one handed only. Oh yeah, I went from the upper 260s, down to 120s, I could have quit that and went back to shooting 2 handed. I watched Tom S. shooting and he's shooting Master scores watching him shoot was surreal to me. I asked him for advice and his answer was "Aim for the center", and that was it no more conversation.
 I was told just shoot a lot and you'll get better. Then I discovered this forum in the winter months and joined later, I found my help.
 My thoughts on the next generation are hopefully aimed at the young or older prospects who show an interest in shooting and ask them to hit the bull. There will be many that can't hit it, have them keep trying until they can. Show them how to use the trigger and sights and the reason "why". Start them at short distances until they are comfortable shooting with 2 then start them 1 handed. Let them "cut their teeth" then invite them to leagues and matches. Let them use one of your pistols until they can get one for themselves, preferably a 22.
 Personally I don't believe making the rules easier for everyone is going to attract more shooters. Watered down rules so little Bobby or Mary can shoot with the rest of the classified shooters is not the answer, they need to "earn the classification". My desire to shoot at a target and "hit the center" has been with me all these years. It takes discipline and dedication to compete and make well, sometimes new shooters goals are too high and they want instant gratification, but changing the rules is not the answer. Once they are competing let them have fun and they'll seek what level of shooter they want to be.
 I'll give my personal view on the EIC and Distinguished match rules. Why water them down, there is no prestige to earn something that others before you "have". In other words these matches are for people who should win with Master scores. If you want watered down rules, then raise the minimum score to 285 or 290 to qualify. It seems these days everything is catering to the 1% ers who want to be accepted and not want to earn their way. 
Stan

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Age : 72
Location : Western Iowa

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