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Elbow Rotation

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Post by House11 3/17/2023, 7:44 pm

I’ve only been shooting BE for a short period and I realized today that I don’t know how to position/turn my elbow on my shooting arm. When I bring my right arm up from relaxed, my elbow points down/right at a 45 degree angle and that seems comfortable. I can turn my elbow counter clockwise (right handed shooter) and have my elbow pointing sideways (right) and that engages my tricep muscle to keep it there. Not sure if the extra muscle engagement is a positive or a negative. 

Which is preferred? Does it matter?

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Post by DA/SA 3/17/2023, 8:10 pm

I’m left handed, but rotate my elbow counter clockwise as far as I can, and tuck my shoulder blade as tight as I can to my back ribs.

So that would be clockwise rotation of your elbow, which is pretty much what you are doing.
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Post by House11 3/17/2023, 8:30 pm

DA/SA wrote:I’m left handed, but rotate my elbow counter clockwise as far as I can, and tuck my shoulder blade as tight as I can to my back ribs.

So that would be clockwise rotation of your elbow, which is pretty much what you are doing.
Just to make sure I understand, counter clockwise for you as a left hander would point your elbow down (elbow “pit” up)?

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Post by john bickar 3/17/2023, 8:42 pm

I know that there are people who can rotate their elbow joint independently of their wrist joint, but I sure ain't one of them.

GLWT.
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Post by John Dervis 3/17/2023, 8:50 pm

In general you want your body to be in a natural position when you are shooting.  My elbow is pretty much straight down but yours might be at a 45 degree angle out and we are both in a natural state.  My elbow/arm is locked pretty straight but I have seen shooters that have their elbows bent either in a flexed state or even a hyper extended state.  Both of those are very unnatural for me but it works for them.   If you use muscle tension to turn your arm that will fatigue as you shoot a match and will not be consistent.  This will be true for your shoulder, your elbow, your wrist etc so you don't want to force a position that your body doesn't want.
  I am curious about you stating that you would want to turn your elbow out.  I just tried that and if I do that, my hand/gun would be held sideways.  I personally would want the opposite and that is I would prefer the gun to be vertical.  A slight cant to the left is somewhat common but truly 90 degrees sideways is pretty unusual. 

Hope that helps.

John

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Post by House11 3/17/2023, 9:09 pm

John Dervis wrote: …
I am curious about you stating that you would want to turn your elbow out.  I just tried that and if I do that, my hand/gun would be held sideways.  I personally would want the opposite and that is I would prefer the gun to be vertical.  A slight cant to the left is somewhat common but truly 90 degrees sideways is pretty unusual. 

Hope that helps.

John
Thanks for the help. To be clear, I can keep the pistol vertical while I rotate my elbow 90 degrees between pointed down and pointed right. The position that feels the most relaxed is about 45 degrees down/right. That’s where I have been shooting but I started over thinking it today during dry fire practice.

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Post by james r chapman 3/18/2023, 7:40 am

Try emulating the World Class AP shooters.

All sorts of contortionists!!!

Is it supination or pronation that maximizes support
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Post by messenger 3/18/2023, 11:10 am

In ISSF rapid fire just about all competitors have they're elbow pointing down.

Bill
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Post by Jack H 3/18/2023, 12:02 pm

Rather than elbow-gun rotation, you might think of elbow orientation as shoulder position.  Because as the elbow goes, so goes the shoulder.  Shoulder strength and stability might be more important to determine whats best.
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Post by DA/SA 3/18/2023, 1:14 pm

House11 wrote:Just to make sure I understand, counter clockwise for you as a left hander would point your elbow down (elbow “pit” up)?
Yes, elbow down.

It was an ISSF Coach that tuned me up on that.

It was interesting, as he hooked me up to a SCATT system and compared my stance/arm position to the stance/arm position that he recommended, and the difference in my wobble was considerably better.
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Post by rburk 3/20/2023, 5:20 pm

I used to shoot competitive archery, and elbow position on your bow arm is important when it comes to string clearance.  I can rotate my elbow almost a full 90 degrees without moving my wrist.  So when I started bullseye shooting a few years ago, I messed with elbow position.  What I found so far is the most consistent position for me is to make sure arm is fully extended with my elbow locked.  For me, that is almost elbow down toward the ground.  I played around a while not locking my elbow, that didn't work so well.

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Post by LenV 3/20/2023, 6:55 pm

What might feel un-natural at first might feel natural a couple of thousand hours later. That said. I was taught at USAMTU how to consistently bring my elbow into position. It felt a tad unusual at first but now I can't imagine not doing it. Once you have your stance, position and grip it's time to think about your lockup. Actually a few k rounds later it's just a routine like breathing. While holding position pointed at the target then rotate your entire arm clockwise (rightys) now just rotate your wrist back to vertical. Don't let your elbow move. You're now ready for hardball. Don't forget the other 3 basics. Sight alignment, trigger control and breath control. That's 50 year old advice so something might of changed. Do basics ever change?
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Post by Jack H 3/21/2023, 12:07 am

LenV wrote:What might feel un-natural at first might feel natural a couple of thousand hours later. That said. I was taught at USAMTU how to consistently bring my elbow into position. It felt a tad unusual at first but now I can't imagine not doing it. Once you have your stance, position and grip it's time to think about your lockup. Actually a few k rounds later it's just a routine like breathing. While holding position pointed at the target then rotate your entire arm clockwise (rightys) now just rotate your wrist back to vertical. Don't let your elbow move. You're now ready for hardball. Don't forget the other 3 basics. Sight alignment, trigger control and breath control. That's 50 year old advice so something might of changed. Do basics ever change?
Len

That is exactly what LTC Miller taught me.  Roll the gun and arm all the way outward.  Then roll just the gun back. 
LTC Miller led Army shooting teams and taught SAFS.  He claimed everything he knew came from Joe Benner. 
He was a great coach.
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