Clearing a Malfunction

Just for the sake of discussion and to exercise the Fundamentals Forum...

I shot a hundred rounds of sustained fire .45 today, TF and RF mixed, and had a failure to eject on one round during a TF string. The case didn't eject completely on the third round and held the slide open. I cleared it, got back to work and got all five rounds off successfully before the target turned.

After doing so, I thought about that for a minute, and realized that I may not have been able to successfully clear it and would have lost my chance for a refire string if all hadn't gone well.

So the question for the more experienced is... do you take the gamble on clearing it, or just put it down and take the alibi re-fire? 

Just curious!

Thanks!

Put it down take the alibi if it is available. If the alibi has already been taken, attempt to clear it and hope for the best. If alibi is gun related and I have a backup, I would have the gun that malfunctioned disabled and switch to the backup.

Unless i have a rectal/cranial inversion and space it out, I'll take the alibi. Thats whaf they're for.
Al

The best course, if available (as mentioned), is to opt for the refire.  The reasons for this include comfort, calmness and consistency.  No matter how quickly you clear and fire the remaining rounds, you are not following your shot process.  Unless you've already had one you should always choose to refire and perform your process as normal.

I have done it both ways but it's best to take the alibi unless you know your equipment and know you can get it cleared.

Years ago I had a Gold Cup with a slide mounted dot that would stove pipe all the time.  Same malfunction each time and that was an empty case pointed straight up with the mouth jammed into the scope.  At least half of the mouth was exposed so it became my routine to have my screwdriver sitting on the bench - when the stove pipe happened I grabbed the screwdriver and popped the shell out and kept shooting.  Eventually I had Rock River install an extended ejector in it and it was 100% after that. 
That early training helped me last season when I had a similar malfunction with my current gun but this one has iron sights.  Problem at hand was I went too long before cleaning it and then it was a rainy day so the slide was really sluggish.  After the first alibi I recognized I could clear this so that is what I did until the CF 900 was over.  At that point I switched to my back up. 

No matter what, there is added stress by clearing a malfunction so take the alibi if you can.  Clearing it becomes the choice when you can't.

Good Luck.
John

I don't suppose y'all could go over expeditious ways to clear jams, stovepipes, and the like...

If it is a stovepipe I can reach with my firing hand finger, I will try to flick it out. This has worked on 22 but not 45acp. Also depends on which shot. If first shot, take the alibi. If 4th, try to clear with firing hand. You don't lose your alibi unless you use the non-firing hand to clear it. I ha e been challenged on this but 10.10.a is pretty clear.
If that fails, I will take the alibi.

Don't forget there could be a bullet stuck in the barrel. Stop, inspect barrel and take the refire. You can also evaluate whether or if you can clear it and it depends how many shots preceded it and if it's the second malfunction. The alibi IS a safety feature

Hiya,

I'll second Bruce's check the barrel before you fire after clearing a malfunction or shooting an alibi. Couple summers ago at a local match I had a light load/FTC on a first centerfire rapid string. I called for the alibi and was preparing for the second string when that voice said check the barrel. Good thing I did, the bullet was about 1/3 of the way down the barrel. 

Lesson learned, now I keep a few various width colored zip ties in my box that I use as ECIs which double as obstruction checkers as they are about 8-10" long. Not many RO's like the thought of turning a pistol around to look down the barrel with people on the line, I can just quickly slip the zip tie through and it's far less disruptive to the other shooters. If you find a problem you can just tell the RO the gun is disabled and you can deal with it after the stage.

Tom

bruce martindale wrote:Don't forget there could be a bullet stuck in the barrel. Stop, inspect barrel and take the refire. You can also evaluate whether or if you can clear it and it depends how many shots preceded it and if it's the second malfunction. The alibi IS a safety feature

Thanks for mentioning this, it is somewhat automatic response for some but often overlooked. If you are clearing a malfunction and attempting to continue firing, it inherently does have some risk involved.

Do you get an alibi in an EIC leg match or not?

Merick wrote:Do you get an alibi in an EIC leg match or not?

They might have changed the rules but, yes, and there is only one alibi allowed per NMC.

That's correct.

Signed,

A guy who tried to call a second alibi during a NMC.

Unless the match programs cited 10.10.b, yes you have 1 alibi per match.

SaraiEsq wrote:I don't suppose y'all could go over expeditious ways to clear jams, stovepipes, and the like...

I'll go over what I know to be the most expeditious route to clear jams, stovepipes, and the like if they are consistent. 

Send it to a gunsmith of known reputation on the pistol you have.

robert84010 wrote:

Merick wrote:Do you get an alibi in an EIC leg match or not?

They might have changed the rules but, yes, and there is only one alibi allowed per NMC.

Which differs from the rifle EIC, where you are just hosed. 

Ok well good to know.

I will amend my answer above as to be on NRA NMC. On CMP EIC matches, the only alibi is a Range alibi.

Good information. Thanks!

NukeMMC wrote:I will amend my answer above as to be on NRA NMC.  On CMP EIC matches, the only alibi is a Range alibi.

CMP rules have a definition for "malfunction" and then rules 5.1.5 , .6, and .7 that cover an alibi procedure

(Edited: These are pistol rules)

Merick wrote:

robert84010 wrote:

Merick wrote:Do you get an alibi in an EIC leg match or not?

They might have changed the rules but, yes, and there is only one alibi allowed per NMC.

Which differs from the rifle EIC, where you are just hosed. 

Ok well good to know.

I'm sure you shot the nationals and the never ending cascade of alibies due to people trying to shoot a 77 match king at 2900fps or reload a piece of 223 brass for the 25th time. Oil? What's that? 

The alibi rule was changed for good reasons. Pistol is different and usually you pay dearly from an alibi.

So a practice that myself and some others I know go by is this: upon a malfunction, take the alibi. But we dead-line that gun immediately following the string that the alibi occurred in and go to our backup gun to continue. Having said this, not everyone has a backup gun or can afford one. 

So option two for someone who has only one gun. Take the alibi. You can’t promise me that the gun will clear easily, or that it won’t cause you to rack a live round out of the gun too, or that the shots following your immediate action (if successful) will be of quality due to your focus being broke and you’re now “frazzled”. Take the alibi. Clear the gun upon command, and maintenance the gun if need be to avoid a second malfunction. Mentally regroup, and get yourself back in the game. 

That’s just me. Sharing for your brain to chew on.

robert84010 wrote:I'm sure you shot the nationals and the never ending cascade of alibies due to people trying to shoot a 77 match king at 2900fps or reload a piece of 223 brass for the 25th time. Oil? What's that? 

The alibi rule was changed for good reasons. Pistol is different and usually you pay dearly from an alibi.

Hey! If that wasn’t true I'd feel insulted.

*a gi pistol cleaning rod with a chamber brush makes a great ruptured case extractor, if you are in a hurry it will grab a second one without removing the first one even.

Back on topic, the only real trick I know for clearing a jam, if a 1911 is stuck in full lockup; with both palms on the slide, hook one thumb on the grip saftey and one inside the front of trigger guard. That way you can rack the slide with the grip strength of both hands together, and keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

A word (or a few) of caution:  If you ever experience a "Click. . . no Bang!" and rack the slide to continue, make sure you see a complete cartridge ejected.  If you see an empty case, stop everything!  Although it is "remotely possible" that an empty case got back in the chamber, it's much more likely that the bullet didn't leave the barrel.  In that case you will probably have more trouble than just a disallowed alibi if you continue trying to complete the string.

Taking the alibi, if available, is a safer bet.  If not available, watch for a complete cartridge.

One additional note, however: The shooter is responsible for the first round to be loaded into the chamber.  If there's a "Click. . . no Bang!" for the first shot, and when checked, the chamber is empty, the alibi is not allowed.

When I first got my Nelson Conversion, during a match my gun went "click" instead of "bang" far too often.  So each time I took an alibi.   Then, during practice, when the gun went click I just pulled the hammer back and fired again - and every time this worked, so I did it in matches from then on.

Eventually I sent the Nelson kit back to Larry, and they replace it with a new kit - after which this never happened again.  But I'm sure to always clean my chamber before heading to the range.  No more alibi shots with the Nelson.  But if it ever does go "click" in the future, I'll know what to do next, assuming I'm fast enough.

Here's an interesting scenario: Click no bang, rack the slide, an unfired round ejects, complete the rest of the shots in the magazine. Drop the mag and replace with another mag (with 5 rounds loaded) and take the last shot to replace unfired round you ejected. Of course this takes a lot of presence of mind to accomplish and is virtually impossible in rapid fire but it happened during timed fire at a match I was at and there was a lot of discussion about whether this is allowed. A review of the rules supported the shooter, an experienced high master.