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Stance difference for Live vs Dry Fire?

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Stance difference for Live vs Dry Fire? Empty Stance difference for Live vs Dry Fire?

Post by KenP11A Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:04 pm

Another question for you all, I noticed when I dry fire that I am most comfortable standing 90 degree perpendicular to the target/wall. However, during my range session yesterday, I found standing 45 degrees was more comfortable when I was live firing. Then, this morning, I decided I should probably dry fire 45 degrees, since that's the way I was shooting, but it felt uncomfortable, and once again I wanted to go perpendicular. 

That doesn't make much sense to me. Why would standing one way feel comfortable outside, but another way be comfortable inside? I feel like I should be training, dry and live, using one specific (stance) angle for consistent results. 

Has anyone encountered a similar issue?

I should note, when I'm dry firing, I'm using ankle weights around my wrist and I'm holding up for at least 1 minute, dry firing slowly the entire hold, keeping as still as possible, using a MantisX to judge my trigger presses. I either use a glock red gun or a revolver so I don't have to rack the slide or thumb the hammer to reset the trigger.


Last edited by KenP11A on Sun Apr 09, 2023 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Jon Eulette Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:12 pm

Recoil is a game changer even with a 22 pistol. 
As a gunsmith I do a lot of trigger jobs. I have what I call the good “garage” trigger pull and the “range” trigger pull. Garage has zero anxiety vs. range anxiety. When we live fire we want to perform our best which is shown on target.
So when we train at home we are learning techniques. At the range we confirm what we’ve learned in dry training. So goal is zero difference between the two. Physically is the easy part, mentally is another story.
Hope this helps.


Last edited by Jon Eulette on Sun Apr 09, 2023 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by mikemyers Sun Apr 09, 2023 3:31 pm

Jon, from you, and especially from Sgt. Keith Sanderson, I learned that all the "work" and learning and precision is done at home, dry-firing, and this is where we need to carefully think about things, and do our best.  At the range, we're supposed to relax, and just do what we have learned.

The first time I was told this, I thought it was pretty dumb.  It didn't take long to realize how brilliant it is.  

At the matches I went to, I told others (and myself) that I was just going to shoot as if it was practice, and ignore the competition.  I remember that I did better than when I was "trying to do my best".  

I think what you just wrote is perfect, and what I'll think from now on:

When we train at home we are learning techniques. At the range we confirm what we’ve learned in dry training.
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Post by KenP11A Sun Apr 09, 2023 5:17 pm

Thank you both. I have a follow up question, if I may. When I'm doing my hold drills with the ankle weights, I've noticed after a minute of continuous holding it is easier for me to have my extended arm past 90 degrees. What I mean is, for those extended holds, I was finding it more comfortable to stand with my shoulders at about 100 degrees from the target. The typical recommendations I have seen are for 90 and 45 degree angles, but no more than that. Is that also a useable position? I'd rather not develop bad habits this early on.

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Post by Jon Eulette Sun Apr 09, 2023 5:26 pm

I’m not nor never been a shooter who used holding drills. My hold was developed from general fitness routine and mostly from holding a gun up dry and live firing.
Your weighted holding drill isn’t developing your motor skills for shooting. You can’t muscle a gun, you have to finesse it. When holding gun stable you will feel the different muscles involved in stabilizing the gun. Your trigger finger has a huge amount of input in regards to stabilizing the gun. You can take a magazine and add weight inside it to give you more weight when you train. I have a lead filled magazine. 
I promise 5 minutes of proper dry fire will do more than 5 minutes of holding drills.
Jon
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Post by Jack H Sun Apr 09, 2023 9:21 pm

Coach Miller had me do holding drills in the 70s.  Sort of.  Mostly for strength.  The best one was holding a phonebook at the spine out in shooting position.  This combined grip and shoulder.  And it was a killer, even to me who was also a conditioned tennis player.
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Post by LenV Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:35 am

I do 99% of my dry firing sitting in my rocker recliner. Just saying...
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Post by Jon Eulette Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:00 pm

LenV wrote:I do 99% of my dry firing sitting in my rocker recliner. Just saying...
Len, ya training for Paralympic’s? Just sayin……lol
Jon
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