Jerks or something else
+9
Allgoodhits
BHeintz
DA/SA
jwax
jimsteele
zanemoseley
Rla442
Merick
chopper
13 posters
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Jerks or something else
First off giving up points sucks so bad that it could make you want to sit on the porch.
I had a hard day at the sectional Saturday, first I ran out of insulin the night before so I limited my carbs for 2 meals, then drank some coffee just before I shot. That wasn't the true problem though, I doubted myself and try as I may, I had a hard time recovering my thoughts soon enough. I was in the sustained stages when I got back to some of my process but by then the finger wasn't working with my aim (still shaking).
Most all of my shots in slow fire were in the bull. I had more in the 7 rings and one out of the rings at 2 o'clock. The worse shots were in the sustained stages, not only out of the bull, but 9 out of rings at 1-3 o'clock.
My question I need help with is, since they were in the opposite direction of the typical jerk, could that still be a jerk. I do pressure the trigger before at the beginning of the pull, but could hurrying the pull at the end cause it to go high right? Could it be something else?
Thanks for any ideas.
Stan
I had a hard day at the sectional Saturday, first I ran out of insulin the night before so I limited my carbs for 2 meals, then drank some coffee just before I shot. That wasn't the true problem though, I doubted myself and try as I may, I had a hard time recovering my thoughts soon enough. I was in the sustained stages when I got back to some of my process but by then the finger wasn't working with my aim (still shaking).
Most all of my shots in slow fire were in the bull. I had more in the 7 rings and one out of the rings at 2 o'clock. The worse shots were in the sustained stages, not only out of the bull, but 9 out of rings at 1-3 o'clock.
My question I need help with is, since they were in the opposite direction of the typical jerk, could that still be a jerk. I do pressure the trigger before at the beginning of the pull, but could hurrying the pull at the end cause it to go high right? Could it be something else?
Thanks for any ideas.
Stan
chopper- Posts : 817
Join date : 2013-10-29
Age : 72
Location : Western Iowa
Re: Jerks or something else
As described it sounds like you are "heeling", your conscious self is worried about the jerk left so your subconscious helps you by jerking it to the right.
Merick- Posts : 446
Join date : 2015-08-13
Location : Kansas
chopper likes this post
Re: Jerks or something else
My nemesis too is the flyer at the 1- 2 o'clock position. Couple things that run through my head, I hear and read about healing the shot but cant fee or figure a way to practice to correct this. Dry fire doesn't improve the flyers in the high right location. I shoot open sights most of the time which I don't think all those shots at the 1 -2 o'clock position are from healing the gun. I think I end up looking at the target instead of the sights. I don't know what is right or wrong or what grip or arm pressures are needed to correct the high right shots.
Rla442- Posts : 19
Join date : 2022-04-14
Re: Jerks or something else
I'm a lefty so reverse all my direction, and my normal mild jerked/flinch shot is low right, my "heeling" jerk is hard top left. These kind of shots for me are less frequent than a standard flinch shot but can be very dramatic and out of scoring rings.
zanemoseley- Posts : 2687
Join date : 2015-07-11
Location : Cookeville, TN
Re: Jerks or something else
Absolutly Stan. I have a doctorate in Jerkonomics, so I know what I'm talking about.
You absolutly CAN jerk high right, and pretty much anywhere else on (or off ) the target face. Honest, i do it a lot.
What a lot of shooters don"t realise, is that thier jerk is often accompanied by a jump in grip pressure. It gets hidden by thier jerk, and often amplifies it.
I don"t fault them for not knowing this, I've been jerking the trigger a lot longer than most of them...
You absolutly CAN jerk high right, and pretty much anywhere else on (or off ) the target face. Honest, i do it a lot.
What a lot of shooters don"t realise, is that thier jerk is often accompanied by a jump in grip pressure. It gets hidden by thier jerk, and often amplifies it.
I don"t fault them for not knowing this, I've been jerking the trigger a lot longer than most of them...
jimsteele- Posts : 80
Join date : 2019-02-01
Location : Maryland
Al, chopper and SingleActionAndrew like this post
Re: Jerks or something else
First off, spending time and effort on jerked shots is very counterproductive.
If you were to focus on your shot process, including follow through, your flinched/jerked shots will go away. Think about that X, not that shot in the 7 ring.
If you were to focus on your shot process, including follow through, your flinched/jerked shots will go away. Think about that X, not that shot in the 7 ring.
jwax- Posts : 571
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Western ny
Ed Hall, chopper and Allgoodhits like this post
Re: Jerks or something else
Concentrate on maintaining your grip as well as your wrist and arm position (follow through) while breaking the shot.
DA/SA- Posts : 1445
Join date : 2017-10-09
Age : 68
Location : Southeast Florida
chopper likes this post
Re: Jerks or something else
Grouping high and right, or low and left are just different forms of anticipating the gun firing. I basically consider it the same thing, it's a reaction to the recoil slightly before it actually happens. Something you might try is practice sustained fire, firing only two shots. This can take away some of the pressure, and help you really focus on good fundamentals.
BHeintz- Posts : 82
Join date : 2012-01-19
Age : 38
Location : IL
chopper likes this post
Re: Jerks or something else
Align sights, placed aligned sights in aiming area, apply pressure on trigger until shot fires, repeat.
By applying pressure on trigger until it fires is letting the gun shoot. My guess is that you are making the gun shoot. You likely see a movement to low left aiming area, then bring the gun up right to correct then make the gun shoot. The shot breaks high right, since you made it shoot, then. You just went too far. I think this is healing, as is breaking the wrist to make the correction easier, not better. Possibly a stance issue too. Think about above, but also consider moving hind foot closer to center, i.e. behind the front foot. Relax, work the trigger, don't let the trigger finger erase all that was good up until that point.
By applying pressure on trigger until it fires is letting the gun shoot. My guess is that you are making the gun shoot. You likely see a movement to low left aiming area, then bring the gun up right to correct then make the gun shoot. The shot breaks high right, since you made it shoot, then. You just went too far. I think this is healing, as is breaking the wrist to make the correction easier, not better. Possibly a stance issue too. Think about above, but also consider moving hind foot closer to center, i.e. behind the front foot. Relax, work the trigger, don't let the trigger finger erase all that was good up until that point.
Allgoodhits- Posts : 892
Join date : 2017-09-17
Location : Southport, NC
chopper likes this post
Re: Jerks or something else
You didn't mention what sights you use. If your using iron then I would get a Red Dot sight! The red dot will let you see what is happening up to the moment the bullet leaves the barrel. Red Dot is the best training aid! You didn't mention the caliber so if its 45acp you might as has been mentioned heeling or anticipating recoil. Also happens with .22 but to a lesser extent. Be sure you keep your wrist locked. Another issue is your squeezing your hand trying to get a shot off quickly. You have to learn that the trigger finger is the only finger that moves when shooting a good score.
If your not using a red dot get one!
If your not using a red dot get one!
Froneck- Posts : 1729
Join date : 2014-04-05
Age : 77
chopper likes this post
Re: Jerks or something else
Froneck wrote:You didn't mention what sights you use. If your using iron then I would get a Red Dot sight! The red dot will let you see what is happening up to the moment the bullet leaves the barrel. Red Dot is the best training aid! You didn't mention the caliber so if its 45acp you might as has been mentioned heeling or anticipating recoil. Also happens with .22 but to a lesser extent. Be sure you keep your wrist locked. Another issue is your squeezing your hand trying to get a shot off quickly. You have to learn that the trigger finger is the only finger that moves when shooting a good score.
If your not using a red dot get one!
But if you dryfire with irons and you truly focus on the front sight, you will see what is happening AT the gun in your hand.
See the Joe White line below
Jack H- Posts : 2688
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 75
Location : Oregon
chopper and fastshooter like this post
Re: Jerks or something else
Frank, I was shooting a 22 Sectional with a Nelson conversion and a red dot. You are right about the trigger finger along with my grip, I tend to keep increasing my grip as the match progresses.
Jack, I forgot about The Encyclopedia, that's a good article. There is a lot of discipline in this sport and I can see several points Joe mentions that I forget about.
Thank you both for reminding me, and it's a lot of basic triggering work I need to keep at also.
Stan
Jack, I forgot about The Encyclopedia, that's a good article. There is a lot of discipline in this sport and I can see several points Joe mentions that I forget about.
Thank you both for reminding me, and it's a lot of basic triggering work I need to keep at also.
Stan
chopper- Posts : 817
Join date : 2013-10-29
Age : 72
Location : Western Iowa
mikemyers- Posts : 4236
Join date : 2016-07-26
Age : 80
Location : South Florida, and India
Re: Jerks or something else
That line practice makes perfect is not quite correct! Perfect Practice make Perfect is correct. Too many shooters shoot until knee deep in brass but learn nothing. As I have mentioned quite a few times before Adam did not like iron sights, I put red dots on all the guns he shot and he got quite good! He earned EIC points before he when to the AMU. But practiced very little with the Ball Gun! While in basic he got hurt, patched-up and sent home to recuperate. When he returned and went to the AMU it was late May, was issued the guns, told he would go to Perry but would not shoot on the team. When try-outs were done to select the Service pistol team, Adam shot the highest score so was put on Service pistol team, was also the new shooter. At Perry he was again highest team shooter, Army won Service pistol fist time in 15 years. Adam also won the Service pistol individual match. It was the Red Dot that gave him the proper training as it did me years before! When he was Coach for the AMU he changed the required use of irons sights until particular score was shot (I think is was 2570 but don't remember) and issued Red Dot mounted pistols to new shooters.
The Red dot will allow you to see the errors while shooting a match, correcting the errors will then carry over to when iron sights are required and take less time than training/practice with only iron!
The Red dot will allow you to see the errors while shooting a match, correcting the errors will then carry over to when iron sights are required and take less time than training/practice with only iron!
Froneck- Posts : 1729
Join date : 2014-04-05
Age : 77
Re: Jerks or something else
Hmm. I've got mixed feelings ...
There's really nothing better in TF and RF to remind me to squeeze the trigger than the flying wood splinters in my peripheral vision.
It's the ones straight downrange that mess me up.
There's really nothing better in TF and RF to remind me to squeeze the trigger than the flying wood splinters in my peripheral vision.
It's the ones straight downrange that mess me up.
WesG- Posts : 695
Join date : 2018-09-21
Location : Cedar Park, TX - N CA
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