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hardball pistol

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Jack H
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Post by aloreman 11/23/2013, 7:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

What would I need to do to a springfield mil spec to make it a competitive pistol

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Post by Colt711 3/11/2014, 3:56 pm

Having the "ball" gun built 1st is a good strategy. As commented the recoil spring may need changing for WC but shooting matches with the trigger "as is" will be good practice for ball matches. As noted going with a  WC pistol would require a hammer change thus a trigger let off change.

Don't overlook the possibility of a smith near you. There are several who frequent this discussion group who are top notch. Look for a smith who builds BE guns regularly.

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Post by JayhawkNavy02 3/11/2014, 4:09 pm

Is there a reason that the SACS National Match Hardball doesn't get recommended as much as the Les Baer?

Some things I like are the light carry bevel, undercut trigger guard along and black hammer.  I don't care for the aggressive 20 LPI front strap serrations, but that can be fixed on the order at no additional charge..

Apologies in advance and thanks for the patience with the beginner questions. 

hardball pistol - Page 2 PC9502-03


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on 3/20/2014, 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by DavidR 3/11/2014, 5:19 pm

Springfield custom shop guns are from the ones ive seen more expensive, and less known maybe they will catch on once more people start showing up with them.
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Post by DeweyHales 3/11/2014, 8:56 pm

It's also easier to find a Les Baer in stock. The SACS guns take a while to get. If both had to be ordered and built, either would likely be better than the guy holding it.
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Post by gitkrunk 3/11/2014, 9:31 pm

i also had John Vincent of Hallstoncustom.com build my hardball gun on a springfield. i think i paid 700ish to have him do all the work. I took home 8 points in my first match with it.
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Post by DavidR 3/12/2014, 12:16 pm

Many competent gunsmiths can build a accurate hardball gun,
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Post by DavidR 3/13/2014, 12:16 pm

on checking into the Springfield Custom shop hardball gun, retail on gunbroker is 2199.00 and although they tell you all the good things about the work and parts they offer no info as to accuracy.
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Post by JayhawkNavy02 3/13/2014, 12:29 pm

If you are willing to wait you can get it direct from the SACS for less, $1830 with a 1 year wait.

The guarantee is the same as Les Baer, which is less than 3" at 50 yards.


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on 3/20/2014, 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by LenV 3/19/2014, 10:32 pm

You did say you were open to any suggestions.GunBroker right this minute has a Kimber Target Match going for 950.00 .They only made 1000 of them in 2006 and they really are a great pistol.They are a 70 series that went thru their custom shop and come out shooting nice groups. I set mine up as a backup wad gun and used my R.O. after stripping all the non-reg stuff off it as my ball gun. The R.O. shoots fine (6 point leg) but the Kimber just flat shoots better groups. After not very much work,mostly swapping parts off the other pistol I now have a E.I.C legal series 70 ball gun. As a plus my R.O. has a full length guide rod that makes it a better wad gun. I am looking forward to hardball matches with it this year.

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Post by JayhawkNavy02 3/20/2014, 9:33 pm

That's terrific!  Just goes to show you the forum is filled with great information.  I had no idea Kimber made target pistols of that quality.  I'm going to keep on the lookout.  Unfortunately, I've been burned purchasing two new pistols over the internet, so I'd only take the risk if there was an inspection period, unfortunately, that one is sold as is.  

Very Cool and another great option.  I appreciate all the terrific advice.
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Post by dronning 3/20/2014, 10:51 pm

Champions Choice has a standing orders for Les Baer Hard Ball, Wadcutter, and Premier II's.  They just sold their last Hard Ball gun last week.  They should have more in stock in about 6-8 weeks.  You can call and ask.

Another option is to buy the Premier II (7 in stock right now) and change out the grip safety and hammer plus add a little trigger weight to make it legal for EIC matches.  It should hold the X ring.
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Post by LenV 3/21/2014, 1:37 am

Those are some nice pistols on Champions Choice site. If you go that route don't forget that you also have to change out the ambidextrous safety and the extended slide release. If it had (these don't) a full length spring guide you would have to change that out also. CMP wants them pretty much original. They (CMP) are actually in the process of re-thinking some of these rules but right now that's what the regs say.

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Post by DavidR 3/21/2014, 10:34 am

Larrys guns has a nice used baer hardball listed for 1650.00 on his sight.
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Post by Rob Kovach 3/21/2014, 12:29 pm

I just got word from CMP that any rule changes that they come up with won't take effect until 2015 shooting season.  You can bet that a ball gun that's legal now will still be legal in 2015.
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Post by JayhawkNavy02 3/21/2014, 8:49 pm

gitkrunk wrote:i also had John Vincent of Hallstoncustom.com build my hardball gun on a springfield. i think i paid 700ish to have him do all the work. I took home 8 points in my first match with it.

I called John, he's an absolute class act.  Spent a lot more time on the phone than he needed to and I hung up with the confidence that he can build an absolute bruiser of a CMP gun.  He can accommodate what I'd like done, which is a CMP legal pistol, with the frame modified to fit a beavertail.  He said he could fit the hammer/beavertail grip safety as well as the traditional safety so that I can go to a Combat Hammer and high ride grip when I choose to.  Super guy to deal with.  If I can find a MIL-SPEC this is a definite option.

Rob Kovach wrote:I just got word from CMP that any rule changes that they come up with won't take effect until 2015 shooting season.  You can bet that a ball gun that's legal now will still be legal in 2015.

Has there been any rumor of what changes are coming? I hope that it will permit the Beavertail grip safety.

dronning wrote:Another option is to buy the Premier II (7 in stock right now) and change out the grip safety and hammer plus add a little trigger weight to make it legal for EIC matches.  It should hold the X ring.

That was one of my original thoughts, that way I could get the beavertail when I wanted it without having to modify the frame later.  The only thing I don't like about the Premier II is the front slide serrations and that I would have to get a new thumb safety.  With the extra expense, I would probably prefer just to wait for a hardball or order a SACS National Match Hardball.


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on 3/21/2014, 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Rob Kovach 3/21/2014, 9:34 pm

JayHawkNavy wrote wrote:Has there been any rumor of what changes are coming? I hope that it will permit the Beavertail grip safety.

My recommendation was to allow Beavertail safeties, combat hammers, ambi-safeties, and accessory rails like the new USMC MEU(SOC) pistols have.  I also recommended to allow the Sig Sauer M11A1.
These rule change sessions have happened sporadically over the years, and we usually don't see many changes to the rules--especially few changes to the 1911 rules.
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Post by LenV 3/21/2014, 9:46 pm

If you want them to allow beavertails (as do I ) You should go to the general discussion site and follow the directions there under CMP rule changes to put your 2 cents worth in. I think you have until the 11th to get it in. I shared my thoughts with them and they have responded to me. They are going to look at all of them in the end of April meeting.

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Post by JayhawkNavy02 3/21/2014, 10:21 pm

Thanks Len!  I'll do that right now.
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Post by Rob Kovach 3/22/2014, 10:54 am

I already did.
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Post by gitkrunk 3/24/2014, 1:00 pm

I'm against changing the EIC rules...... If anything lets make it non adjustable sights Smile
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Post by Colt711 3/24/2014, 5:08 pm

The suggestions made make shooting the "ball" gun easier. It's been a long time since I rec'd various awards in these matches but I recall the difficulty, and time required. It all contributed to the pride and satisfaction when successful.


 A lot of frustration and pressure is experienced when chances are limited and infrequent. Stories circulating regarding pitfalls and the difficulty of winning a distinguished badge helped give it a certain aura. Pressure felt before the last 10 rapid fire shots when the competitor has 24+ points is  quite intense! It all contributes to satisfaction, pride, and fond memories. Nothing should be done to lessen it.


I think the easing of regs allowing reloads did irreparable damage to the value of the badge.

I see little value or reason in loosening restrictions.


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Post by Rob Kovach 3/24/2014, 5:18 pm

I don't see any advantage to a beavertail, a combat hammer or an ambidextrous safety--or even a extended thumb safety. 
I think there is still plenty of difficulty and reward available if these gun features were included/allowed.

But I do see the door being open for many more competitors to seek the badge who don't have the equipment now.
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Post by gitkrunk 3/24/2014, 5:45 pm

I am new to the sport and the reason I got into was for the glory of a distinguished badge. I have tried to get friends of mine or just random people interested is bullseye/EIC matches. The biggest turn off to getting people shooting are the worlds single hand and 50 yards.  Everyone I know that owns more then one guns has some form of a GI 1911.  I think the as-issued and military police matches are the best way to get new people involved in the sport.
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Post by Rob Kovach 3/24/2014, 7:44 pm

There are so many shooters with 1911's that don't quite meet the current CMP rules but a vast majority of them have 1911's that would meet the rules if the parts found on the USMC's new 1911 were added to the list of acceptable 1911 parts.

Because the USMC SOC pistol is an "as issued" pistol, I believe it's consistent with the spirit of the CMP program.



I don't know why anybody would be turned off by shooting 1 handed at 50 yards.  It's much harder to shoot a 10 on the 50 foot targets.
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Post by gitkrunk 3/24/2014, 8:37 pm

Better add the coast guard service pistol as well. SIG p226 and 229.
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