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CMP Rule change for EIC matches

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james r chapman
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CMP Rule change for EIC matches Empty CMP Rule change for EIC matches

Post by clark2245 Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:15 pm

Note the CMP rule change for 2024 in 8.3.2 specifically allowing having competitors from different EIC matches firing on the same relay. 

Pistol EIC Match sponsors are encouraged to conduct Service Pistol,
22 Rimfire Pistol and Service Revolver EIC matches as separate events during
the same competition, or they may combine competitors from different EIC
events into the same relay.


I worked with Jim Henderson last year to convince him, and he then convinced his boss, that the word 'encouraged' was not in there accidentally.  They then approved me running a 'test' with a combination of the Service Revolver EIC with other EIC matches by having the Service Revolver EIC competitors shoot the first slow fire while the other competitors waited.  Then everyone (including service pistol and 22 rimfire EIC) fired the next slow fire followed by the timed and rapid fire targets. I reported back to Jim there were no problems or complaints from other competitors, so this new clarification on the rule seems to be the result.  Combining them like this saves a considerable amount of time, which is important for most matches, other perhaps than at Camp Perry where there is all week to get things done.  Basically they have clarified we can combine running relays of the EIC matches as needed to make things more efficient.

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Post by SingleActionAndrew Tue Apr 30, 2024 5:11 pm

I'm trying to understand when this would come into play. What scenarios are you envisioning? A Service Revolver competitor doesn't want to shoot 22EIC and SP EIC, and can't wait to leave? Or is this more about shooting position limitations?
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Post by PhotoEscape Tue Apr 30, 2024 5:18 pm

It is rather time saving for match directors & range, Andrew, IMO.  I.e. just a two days ago during CMP Eastern Games we had 22 EIC and SP shot at the same relay.  So, it is just one combined relay instead of two separate ones.
AP


Last edited by PhotoEscape on Tue Apr 30, 2024 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by james r chapman Tue Apr 30, 2024 5:32 pm

Common practice in Michigan where there’s a long distance between ranges for sf and sustained fire.

An issue is making sure DR shooters don’t shoot that first sf for sighters !
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Post by Allen Barnett Tue Apr 30, 2024 6:45 pm

What about the firing differences between rimfire and service pistols on the starting positions?  I can see people trying to "fugde" with the rimfire by raising to early from the 45 degree starting position.  You are going to need line officers to ensure this does not happen at marches where you might have several inter-mixed shooters on the line at one time.  Besides if I am shooting rimfire I sure don't want somebody on both sides of me shooting a service pistol! The matches should and in my opinion be kept separate!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by RoyDean Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:57 pm

They have been doing this routinely at matches in Oregon, primarily in order to save time. Works fine. The caller always reminds 22 shooters about the arm lift rule before TF/RF. As for not wanting to be a 22 shooter between SP shooters, hmmm, should not be an issue, IMHO.

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Post by clark2245 Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:43 pm

Allen Barnett wrote:What about the firing differences between rimfire and service pistols on the starting positions?  I can see people trying to "fugde" with the rimfire by raising to early from the 45 degree starting position.  You are going to need line officers to ensure this does not happen at marches where you might have several inter-mixed shooters on the line at one time.  Besides if I am shooting rimfire I sure don't want somebody on both sides of me shooting a service pistol! The matches should and in my opinion be kept separate!!!!!!!!!!

Not hard.  You can separate the different groups on the line so all the 22 EIC competitors are together, or identify the 22 shooters and have line officers keep an eye on things.  As to having someone shooting a service pistol next to me when I'm shooting a 22, I don't see how it is any different than if I was also shooting a service pistol.  I sometimes shoot 22 only in regular matches and don't really care if those next to me are shooting a 22 or 45 during the CF and 45 aggregates.

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Post by tovaert Wed May 01, 2024 8:49 am

So if I bring my 22 and SP, I have to choose which one I want to shoot when there is only going to be one relay?

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Post by clark2245 Wed May 01, 2024 9:30 am

tovaert wrote:So if I bring my 22 and SP, I have to choose which one I want to shoot when there is only going to be one relay?
Well, certainly not for the matches I run.  We have multiple relays of the EIC matches so everyone gets to shoot everything they want to, or that we can talk them into shooting.  I really doubt any match directors are going to hold only one relay and force people to make that kind of choice.  This is being made to sound harder than it is, which is just an official blessing of what most of us have been doing for a long time.

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Post by chiz1180 Wed May 01, 2024 9:53 am

As mentioned this is something that has been done by many match directors for a while, and it does save time and maximizes opportunity for participation. One key thing that has not been mentioned is that you can share equipment, for example one person shoots a service pistol on the first NMC and then someone borrows it to shoot the second NMC. Squadding helps with the 22 EIC lift concerns, if you group them together, it is not really a problem.
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