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AW93 Ejector Loose

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Post by henka 7/2/2024, 8:18 am

Greetings from the other side of the lake.

I have a nr 5255 AW93 that I shoot mainly 25m precision with, according to swedish National rules.

Anyway, there is little information about this gun on the web even though its common. Gunsmiths are rare in sweden, and capable ones much less common.

To the issue:

The ejector in the frame is loose. It can move side to side and even fall out completely if you have no mag or slide. During firing it works well, but once in perhaps 50 shots it fails to extract/eject.

Im looking into the ejector beeing the issue but im not sure.

I wonder how it is held in place, there is no screws and below the ejector there is marks - my theory is that they stake the metal below the ejector when its installed as to make it sit snugg. But how is this done in practice? just tap with a hammer and punch or make marks and press the extractor?

Anyone have experience in this?

henka

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Post by -TT- 7/2/2024, 2:39 pm

Yes, it's pressed into the left side of the frame, there is a sort of dovetail notch. It's usually quite tightly fitted but because the upper edge also serves as a stop for the magazine insertion depth, it does receive some force if the shooter (not necessarily you!) slams the magazine home. I've seen at least one completely broken ejector where I suspect this had happened in the past.

If yours is simply loose, I'd suggest a locking compound, you could use blue (removable) or red (permanent) since it's fairly easy to heat the joint if it needs to be removed. Clean the surfaces very well with acetone to prime the activation.

If it's very loose, perhaps staking the frame-to-ejector joint from the top, to "pinch" the dovetails since locking compound doesn't work well to fill gaps. Alternatively, use "retaining compound" such as Henkels 638 (green, expensive) which is made for filling slip-fit gaps between parts.

Ascii-art depiction of what I mean:

Stake at these two points:

Code:
 |    |
 v    v
--    --       (top edge of frame)
 /____\             (horizontal dovetail for ejector)

If the ejector is damaged, it's the same for basically all AW93 models, Feinwerkbau is pretty responsive and should be able to help with a replacement.
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Post by henka 7/3/2024, 8:30 am

-TT- wrote:Yes, it's pressed into the left side of the frame, there is a sort of dovetail notch. It's usually quite tightly fitted but because the upper edge also serves as a stop for the magazine insertion depth, it does receive some force if the shooter (not necessarily you!) slams the magazine home. I've seen at least one completely broken ejector where I suspect this had happened in the past.

If yours is simply loose, I'd suggest a locking compound, you could use blue (removable) or red (permanent) since it's fairly easy to heat the joint if it needs to be removed. Clean the surfaces very well with acetone to prime the activation.

If it's very loose, perhaps staking the frame-to-ejector joint from the top, to "pinch" the dovetails since locking compound doesn't work well to fill gaps. Alternatively, use "retaining compound" such as Henkels 638 (green, expensive) which is made for filling slip-fit gaps between parts.

Ascii-art depiction of what I mean:

Stake at these two points:

Code:
 |    |
 v    v
--    --       (top edge of frame)
 /____\             (horizontal dovetail for ejector)

If the ejector is damaged, it's the same for basically all AW93 models, Feinwerkbau is pretty responsive and should be able to help with a replacement.

Thank you, I will look into this! Ejector looks fine when inspecting it. I suspect this is one of the reasons the magazine tends to creep to high and cause the extracted round to crash into the mag and/or next round.

I will se if i can simply put some weak epoxy or loctite to fix it or staking it like you explain quite clearly.

I will first se if there is anything i can do the ejector, to limit the abuse of the (more expensive) frame.

The leading experts here in sweden, the main importer of AW93 air and pistols, said basicly the same just now when i was on the phone with them.

henka

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Post by -TT- 7/3/2024, 10:34 am

Great! Please let us know the results.

I agree you should stake the part into the frame only as a last resort, since it's an irreversible thing. When my friend's ejector broke, he was able to press a new part back into the slot on his own, successfully. In your case some properly applied Loctite would be best IMO. Epoxy is not likely to bond tightly to the metal over time due to multi-direction shock, and all that oily debris getting into the joint.

I suspect this is one of the reasons the magazine tends to creep to high and cause the extracted round to crash into the mag and/or next round.

Yes, definitely. My friend's pistol puzzled us for quite a while until it became clear the magazine was rising too high since it never touched the ridge that the ejector presents to it. The brass was finding its way out, but the mag jumped around!
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Post by henka 7/3/2024, 10:51 am

-TT- wrote:Great! Please let us know the results.

I agree you should stake the part into the frame only as a last resort, since it's an irreversible thing. When my friend's ejector broke, he was able to press a new part back into the slot on his own, successfully. In your case some properly applied Loctite would be best IMO. Epoxy is not likely to bond tightly to the metal over time due to multi-direction shock, and all that oily debris getting into the joint.

I suspect this is one of the reasons the magazine tends to creep to high and cause the extracted round to crash into the mag and/or next round.

Yes, definitely. My friend's pistol puzzled us for quite a while until it became clear the magazine was rising too high since it never touched the ridge that the ejector presents to it. The brass was finding its way out, but the mag jumped around!

Looking at it close, the slot it sits in is mostly square, upside down T..

Looking close in the frame the ejector is centered by the slide but not when its fully back in wich it can move sideways (in, not out as there is a ledge on the ejector there).

I removed the ejector, and tried to bend one of the sides down somewhat - and bang it got bent to much. But i managed to get the ejector back and put some loctite 270 in the slot and now its fixed atleast for a while.

In the images below you can se how the slot looks and the ejector. Notice the marks where the ejector sits, they are marks from a tool probably to create some obtrustion to fix the ejector.

But making punch marks like you describe would not work, as the sides are quite thin (1.5-2mm at most).

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Post by -TT- 7/3/2024, 11:14 am

Oh, I guess it is a square slot not a dovetail, sorry I should have checked. But my "staking" comment maybe would be maybe more accurately said as "tightening", just close the slot vertically if needed to restore the press-fit. The Loctite will do the rest of the work.

Your frame looks a little bit like the ejector has been moving for a while. Is it just the photo, or does the forward part of the top edge rise up a little? If the ejector comes loose again, I might suggest carefully trying to restore that little tab back to horizontal, by tapping carefully from above, with the ejector in place, then removing it and reapply Loctite.
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Post by henka 7/3/2024, 11:37 am

-TT- wrote:Oh, I guess it is a square slot not a dovetail, sorry I should have checked. But my "staking" comment maybe would be maybe more accurately said as "tightening", just close the slot vertically if needed to restore the press-fit. The Loctite will do the rest of the work.

Your frame looks a little bit like the ejector has been moving for a while. Is it just the photo, or does the forward part of the top edge rise up a little? If the ejector comes loose again, I might suggest carefully trying to restore that little tab back to horizontal, by tapping carefully from above, with the ejector in place, then removing it and reapply Loctite.
must be the image, it looked entirely horizontal but the end was not square but a bit pointed.

but now its a tad bit down right at the tip not really noticeable.

if it comes loose again i will apply loctite more rigorously, as i was not able to cover entire base this time.

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Post by Wobbley 7/3/2024, 12:21 pm

Rather than staking the frame, I’d “stipple” the ejector.  There’s more “meat” to work with.  You’re attempting to create a touch of interference.  As for “Loctite” don’t be afraid of a “retention” compound.  It can be a pain to remove but it can be broken with heat just use a very small soldering iron on the ejector to heat it not the frame.  Then clean the residue with MEK.
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Post by Tripscape 7/3/2024, 2:01 pm

By the way the ejector is cut on the front of the base, with a bevel rather than square, would seem to me that staking the frame is part of a normal process. I don't own FWB and never dealt with them. Is there another point of contact for the ejector where you may somehow pin it? Are they free floating it?

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Post by -TT- 7/3/2024, 2:54 pm

The ejector presses into that slot horizontally from the inside of the frame, the high part that's the actual ejector rides close to flush along the top edge, with a slight gap in fact because the edge of the frame is chamfered so it doesn't touch. The only contact points are around the upside-down-T slot.

I do think it's simply pressed and lightly staked from the factory. There's definitely no place to add a pin, short of drilling a sub-1mm hole vertically down into the frame, something I wouldn't consider personally.

Mine's a later model but ejector is the same except for finish. You can see how the magazine left rear lip actually contacts it from below.
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Post by Tripscape 7/3/2024, 3:18 pm

From pic looks like it's resting on top of the rear magwell wall.  Not much you can do with that either though.

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Post by henka 7/4/2024, 1:41 am

im stating to think the ejector can be loose with no issues, besides potentially dropping out..
never happened to me, and in most scenarios its stuck between mag and slide, as the slide has a track the ejector goes in. so only in the open without magazine situation it can move sideways, but magazines can be damaged of course.

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Post by -TT- 7/5/2024, 9:32 am

I agree it's not going to fall out when firing, but you really don't want it to be loose. It will only cause heartbreak.

Didn't you open the discussion by saying it failed 1 in 50? The AW93 should fail 0 in 500.
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Post by henka 7/5/2024, 11:23 am

-TT- wrote:I agree it's not going to fall out when firing, but you really don't want it to be loose. It will only cause heartbreak.

Didn't you open the discussion by saying it failed 1 in 50? The AW93 should fail 0 in 500.
yeah, perhaps 1 in 75 Smile not counting it and tbh, there is not a single 22lr pistol in my experience that can do 500 rounds without some issue, and here in Sweden most use high end/good 22lr like pardini aw93 benelli.

but in hopefully this will make the gun even more reliable, most competitions we have in the national sports allow for 1 problem/reshoot per match of 54 shots

in 25m bullseye we have a 5 min/5 shot timer so there you can fix the problem. but besides that one there is no time to fix it.

i have learned the hard way to avoid cleaning the gun before a match as that tends to screw the first or second round.

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Post by -TT- 7/6/2024, 7:27 am

1 in 75 is way above my experience. I'm going to hope your ejector stays tight and it improves.

Honestly. my AW93 is the most dependable bullseye pistol I own. The breech area can look positively filthy and the pistol just keeps cycling. Like you describe (and like my Benelli), it has failure to eject for one or two shots after a cleaning, but since bullseye starts with slow fire, I don't worry about it.
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Post by NukeMMC 7/6/2024, 2:04 pm

I have only had #5637 for a few months. Probably about 10k rounds thru it, judging by the wear. No issues with the ejector. Seems quite solid in the frame. No signs of contact with any of the 4 magazines I have.
I have put about 1000 rds thru it. Only malfunction has been 1rd of CCI SV that didn't ignite AW93 Ejector Loose 20240710
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