DA-only revolver for trigger training?

I bought a lightly used SW 929 9mm (6" barrel) revolver somewhat on impulse (before Newsom's latest 2A tax grab kicked in). I wanted a good revolver (among the few available in CA), and 9mm is appealing because it is cheaper and I don't reload. Besides the hassles of moon clips (loader / deloader on the way), first time shooting was fun and of course now I want it improved and accurized.

https://postimg.cc/z3MQ1DNr

The stock trigger is heavy in double-action, more than my 8# trigger gauge - maybe 10-12#, with some stacking.  Single action is a very nice smooth 4# pull, and I could learn to shoot it SA.  But it seems the revolver crowd prefers to shoot double-action, with modifications such as bobbed hammer, lighter springs, etc, to make it work.  It has a titanium cylinder, ostensibly to reduce rotation moment for faster rapid fire shooting.

Optimizing for double action would make it DA only, like this:

https://tkcustom.com/products/ultimate-master-action-tuning-job

For those who shoot revolver, do you recommend going DA only? Does it help improve trigger skill, or other benefits?

Thanks

JHH

I shoot a 9lb DAO trigger on my revolvers, it is fun and different but unfortunately it doesn't automatically grant one awesome trigger control when going back to a 2lb SA trigger. I admit, initially I kind of hoped if I practiced this way it would make everything else seem like "easy mode" but it does not. It's just different.

For context, I am classified Sharpshooter, I often but not always shoot low Expert scores in the .22 part of the match. My PB with a target .22 autoloader is 829 and my PB with the .22 DAO revolver is, I think, 821. So, pretty close. I only shoot metallic sights.

Both SA and DA action are valid approaches. Regardless of the approach you use, revolvers can be a significant challenge, but very rewarding. I shoot SF single action and shoot double for sustained. That said not all DA triggers are created equal. Some are really good others leave a lot of room for improvement.

Among top tier revolver shooters, it’s mixed . 
The PPC guys have to do DA, and they get an extra hand and barricade to do it.
Jason G (one of USA best revolver guys) shoots championship scores SA

Shooting double action is the way to go, I shot DA full time all the time. My 617 and a 32 Long. I got the 32 down to 3.5 lbs and the 22LR down to 4 lbs. You do the trigger to where you pull till you fell the hammer is ready to fall off the sear, aim and fire.
Shoot SAFE,
Bullseye

Revolvers are excellent for training even if you aren't competing with one. Being a terminal cheapskate I shot a lot of rapid fire strings of 1 ball and 4 dummy (empty casing) drills preparing for non-revolver leg matches.

5 target centers and 1 box of ammo = 50 practice rapid strings including 200 dry fire reps. That is pulling your practice ammo budget pennies into wire!

I prefer single action and think you have plenty of time in rapid to cock the hammer back for every shot. My personal best in a match was 368. My average is 360. For reference my average with a Service Pistol is 273.

There’s two questions here. Does DA training benefit overall trigger technique, and whether DA or SA is “better” for revolver matches.

(1) Not really. If you ride BMX, you don’t train on a penny farthing or a cyclocross bike. If you race autocross, you don’t train in a 4x4 off-road. Driving doesn’t improve putting, and vice versa. There is no cross-training benefit for specific skills. There is only building the correct technique and muscle memory for the one specific thing you want to do. The fundamentals never change—learning to apply them on a specific gun with a specific trigger (whether it’s a DA revolver or a 1911) doesn’t make them easier to apply on a different gun. Different grip, different recoil cycle, different trigger, different muscle memory.

(2) Totally a personal preference thing, decided more by the action of a particular gun and the fit of grips to your hand than any other factor. There’s a generous amount of time to shoot in “rapid fire.” More than 2 seconds per shot. If the gun (specifically grips and hammer spur) fits you, you thumbcock as a part of the recoil cycle and come back down onto target ready to shoot. No faster or slower than any DA technique (staging the DA trigger or making a deliberate smooth DA pull).

Growing up I mainly shot NRA Action Pistol and PPC.  Shooting K & L frames, DA two staged trigger pull is a must.  I shot so much that with those guns today, I am more accurate with DA than SA.  Muscle memory, I guess.  When I would switch back to the 1911 platform, my training with the revolver did not help.  Two very different movements with the trigger.  For my action shooting 1911's I had to increase trigger pull to not set one off too soon.  Bullseye I had to go slower than I had in the past.  The revolvers were considerable weight and that did help arm strength training.

JRV wrote:There’s two questions here.  Does DA training benefit overall trigger technique, and whether DA or SA is “better” for revolver matches.  

(1) Not really.  If you ride BMX, you don’t train on a penny farthing or a cyclocross bike.  If you race autocross, you don’t train in a 4x4 off-road.  Driving doesn’t improve putting, and vice versa.  There is no cross-training benefit for specific skills. There is only building the correct technique and muscle memory for the one specific thing you want to do.  The fundamentals never change—learning to apply them on a specific gun with a specific trigger (whether it’s a DA revolver or a 1911) doesn’t make them easier to apply on a different gun.  Different grip, different recoil cycle, different trigger, different muscle memory.  

(2) Totally a personal preference thing, decided more by the action of a particular gun and the fit of grips to your hand than any other factor.  There’s a generous amount of time to shoot in “rapid fire.”   More than 2 seconds per shot.  If the gun (specifically grips and hammer spur) fits you, you thumbcock as a part of the recoil cycle and come back down onto target ready to shoot.  No faster or slower than any DA technique (staging the DA trigger or making a deliberate smooth DA pull).  

Counterpoint.

I would suggest that you give me someone who is a very good DA shooter with limited SA experience and they likely can hold their own shooting an SA platform. I am confident the reverse is not true.

Proper DA shooting re-enforces sight alignment or dot placement "though out" the firing sequence because, it is slower or drawn-out. IOW, while sighting and commencing to press the trigger, one typically sees that that the sights are now moving a bit more, than they were before the trigger press began. This then, enables the shooter to correct the hold or sighting while they are pressing the trigger, through the trigger movement process. I suggest that when shooting DA if done properly, when aim/sight while pressing the trigger and we press the trigger while we are aiming/sighting. I believe this becomes more evident in DA because we see it happening. For me maybe most in SA shooting, the tendency is to aim/sight then press the trigger. One, then two. This induces the jerk of the trigger. In both DA and SA, we need to not abandon sighting while pressing the trigger and not abandon pressing the trigger while sighting. "While" must replace "then".

Too often, in both DA and SA shooters I see step one then step two, instead of combing them into a joint effort which remains dynamic until the sight lifts. When driving on slippery surface, we control the vehicle with both steering and throttle control. In shooting the steering is the sights, the throttle is the trigger press. We can induce error for our intended destination with sighting a pistol or steering a vehicle. We can also induce destination change with trigger press and with throttle control. In a drag strip scenario, one is at the starting line. They align vehicle as perfectly as they possibly can as they sight down the track. Hmmm, the nose of the vehicle as a front sight as you aim down the center of your lane. Ah, your lane, is that similar to the rear notch left and right? So you are perfectly straight. Now, you launch. Do you ever need to make sight/steering adjustments? Why? Because things change. So you correct your sight line or steering, "while" you are still "pressing forward. If you do one, then the other without any correcting, the result will often not be as intended. I think shooting is similar, and shooting DA with slow controlled trigger press drives the message home. For most people, when shooting SA they don't get the learning opportunity, because it is all over so fast. 

I would add something that helps me, and conversely has helped me help others: 

If it is a moving trigger, think DA or long striker feel, simply keep the trigger moving  s l o w l y  until the gun fires. You don't have to "make" it fire, "let" it fire. If you keep the trigger moving, while continually aiming, the gun will fire and you likely didn't disturb it other than whatever the wobble or movement was. In other words that surprise break we seek.

If a static trigger, think crisp SA 1911 or similar trigger, simply keep slightly increasing pressure until the gun fires. Again, don't make it fire, let it fire. When sufficient pressure is applied to the trigger to move the sear off the hammer, the gun will fire. Just let it happen, don't make it happen. This then will yield the surprise break which we seek. 

Simply another approach to the challenge we try to master. Shooting is simple, it just isn't easy. Our conscious thoughts get in the way.

If you are going to shoot NRA or CMP Distinguished Revolver Matches, I would want to know what the rules say about shooting a revolver that has been converted to shoot DA only. When shooting a revolver two-handed, I choose to shoot double-action. When shooting one-handed, unsupported, I shoot single-action, except when a qualification course requires shooting one-handed both right and left handed, then it's double-action all the way.

Makes me wonder if a striker fired trigger like the Glock would be helpful to train trigger control.

Nick Y.

Don't ask me why.

No!

RoyDean wrote:Nick Y.

Don't ask me why.

No!

I would have a slightly different response. In general, training any sort of proper trigger manipulation is good thing. However, if you are not competing with a Glock, it doesn't make much sense to train with one. It doesn't hurt per say, just probably not the most effective use of training time.

Nick Y wrote:Makes me wonder if a striker fired trigger like the Glock would be helpful to train trigger control.

YES, because it like DA, slows the trigger stroke down so more feedback can be observed as pressure is added to the trigger. Older Glocks felt like a quick DA, the newer series are closer to a long roll.