Contest advice

(not sure if this should be in fundamentals, but the question is related to competition psychology)

My local range is holding a bullseye-esque contest.  For the month of October, shooters can buy a pumpkin target ($5, which goes to charity) and take 6 centerfire shots over 30 seconds.  You can shoot as many targets as you want, and the smallest group at the end of the month wins a 1-year "deluxe" membership.

Last week I shot a good target (though I can shoot better).  The RSOs thought it was the best one so far and said "everyone will be shooting for you".  The range posts the targets like wallpaper, and when I go next week I could look (or ask) if anyone bested mine yet.  Competition makes me nervous, not to mention the RSO standing there with a timer. Options:

1. I could ask, and if I find out out someone did better I will be under a lot of pressure if I try again  
2. I could try to NOT find out, but just shoot again to possibly improve the group and possibly surpass a new leader
3. Ask, and if I'm still in front don't shoot again

Suggestions?

If you're interested in shooting bullseye, shoot it again (and again and again). Consider it traning for dealing with match pressure.

Ah, what a great question!

I could write a book on this.

I vote #1. What a delicious opportunity to put yourself under artificial pressure for something that doesn't really matter and just see how you do.

You might shoot well. You might not. You'll definitely learn something.

Keep notes in your journal.

Step up to the line and shoot a better group the next opportunity that you get. Bury the rest of those fools.

(I've been advised by my teammates that my "stomp on their f*cking throats" competitive approach is not one that is shared by all Bullseye shooters.)

That sounds like a great contest, especially if you support that charity.
I would lean toward option #2. That would be the best way to minimize your pressure. Most of us have learned that we are only competing against ourselves, trying to do our best each time we shoot.

The fee is only $5. Call it a donation and shoot your best every time you can until the contest is over.
Have the attitude that if you win, celebrate. If someone else wins, celebrate for them.

At the end of the contest remember it was for a good cause. You did your best and hopefully learned more about shooting and improved your score each time.

Good luck,
Darrell

What they are running is a “re-entry” match.  You pay the fee to buy the target, shoot and get a result.  Each result stands on its own.  So, my advice is to enter often and try to improve on YOUR performance.  If you do you only improve your chances.

Great advice all, thank you (and another example of how good this group is).  I especially liked:

"Have the attitude that if you win, celebrate. If someone else wins, celebrate for them" and "Bury the rest of those fools" (which would be my inclination if I had anything like John's skills)  

Though I've not competed in pistol I did compete in benchrest for several years, including the USARB Nationals in 2016.  Match nerves were always my nemesis, and at club matches the expectation I would always win made it worse over time.  The better I got, the more anxious the matches.  Though nerves don't ruin benchrest like they would pistol hold, it does affect the skills needed to win matches (flag reading, patience, timing, mindfulness).

This also relates to the other "Are You Having Fun" thread. Even though the stakes were never important, shooting BR matches was, for me, quite stressful, and the amount and duration of intense concentration pretty exhausting.  Matches were not fun to shoot, but very fun to win, and that was the apple.

Back to this contest, the prize doesn't help.  Only the top group wins (though all cards will be in a lottery for free ammo), and the "Deluxe" membership runs $1200(!).  Though I don't need all that it includes, my basic membership is up this month - so winning will save $$.  That and bragging rights adds to the pressure.

Add to the mix my age (69), and that almost all the other shooters are way younger and steadier.

In any case, as you point out, there is nothing to lose* by shooting more groups.  Next visit I will see how I'm shooting and if my practice is OK I will shoot more pumpkins.

Thanks again!

JHH

*except a few more brain cells

john bickar wrote:(I've been advised by my teammates that my "stomp on their f*cking throats" competitive approach is not one that is shared by all Bullseye shooters.)

In my best Mortal Kombat voice "Finish him!"

chiz1180 wrote:even if you don't, what changes?

This is a very solid open-ended question to ask yourself, whatever level you are at.

Anecdotes are not data; nevertheless, I have two:

1. I didn't break 2650 (despite trying very hard for many years) until about five months after I became a parent. I walked into the match with no expectations after swinging a hammer all throughout the prior day, and shot 2660.
2. NTT July 15 2023, I had zero expectations for the team match and it was absolutely pouring down rain. I remember turning my head up to the sky and screaming, "RAIN HARDER!" Shot a 290 for my team. I also learned that day that Gore-Tex boots do not work very well if the water pours into them from the top.

Don't sweat what others shoot.

john bickar wrote:

chiz1180 wrote:even if you don't, what changes?

This is a very solid open-ended question to ask yourself, whatever level you are at.

Anecdotes are not data; nevertheless, I have two:

This is not the first time I have heard of anecdotes like this.

chiz1180 wrote:

john bickar wrote:

chiz1180 wrote:even if you don't, what changes?

This is a very solid open-ended question to ask yourself, whatever level you are at.

Anecdotes are not data; nevertheless, I have two:

This is not the first time I have heard of anecdotes like this.

I tend to repeat myself. It's part of my charm.

john bickar wrote:I tend to repeat myself. It's part of my charm.

I should have been more clear, I have heard similar anecdotes from others (as well as yourself). If I thought about it I could probably come up with a few similar anecdotes from my own experience.

Play some Buble’
Forget there is a clock
Shoot a group that saves Vegas

If you don't already, I'd do some serious dry fire training  over the next days and weeks, and then go "proof of concept" on the competition.

Update:

Yesterday was my last opportunity to get to the range before contest end, and I decided to shoot more contest targets whether or not I was in the lead.  I dry fired with the 1911 more than usual for several days, including two handed (which is how everyone is shooting their targets).

I had planned not to ask where I stood at check-in, but "we tried our best and it came out as usual"*.  On arrival I was a bit blown away by how many shot pumpkin targets were up on the walls - hundreds.  I briefly scanned for small groups when the RSO behind the counter said "you should shoot more, someone is ahead of you". Oh great. Evidently mine was best (!?) until some guy shot a group that was similar size as mine but better centered.  "We count group size and centering" he said.

I shot the .22 for an hour or so, starting with slow fire then timed/rapid fire pace (50').  I noticed my hold wasn't nearly as good as last time I shot, and I tried various ways to calm down - knowing "nerves" were at least partly responsible. Two deep breaths before strings, stretching, making sure grip and stance were right.  Still my hold was wobbly and I wondered if the guy that beat me takes beta blockers**.

I transitioned to the .45 and one or two hand I could see my hold and groups were below average.  I thought about bailing on the contest but there is only one winner, and as you guys said this would be good match training.  After some dry and live practice I shot 3 pumpkins - and none were close to my prior good target.  The RSO timing me (and I) noticed my first (of 6) 2-3 shots were best, often right in the center, but as my excitement (stress) increased so did my wobble and peaceful triggering.  I was making a rube mistake (as I am one): worrying about score instead of focusing solely on process and execution of each shot.

So like in Monopoly, "You won 2nd prize in a beauty contest".  In spite of this I'm glad I shot the additional targets as a learning experience, and that I need to learn to emulate Dikec with his composure and putative immunity to stress under fire.

*Viktor Chernomyrdin on the USSR

**BP med that calms the autonomic nervous system and is banned for some shooting sports.  I don't take it!

What would you change or what would you train, after this experience, to keep the shots "in the 10 ring"?

RodJ wrote:What would you change or what would you train, after this experience, to keep the shots "in the 10 ring"?

I plan to think about this, but one thought that kept running through was something from a prior Jon Eulette post.  Something like he hadn't been shooting for some time and his hold wasn't good, but even with a big wobble he shot all 10s by triggering properly.  ie, accept your current hold, trust it, and just do the fundamentals (trigger) correctly.

I sat out for 6-8 months because I got bored and frustrated.  Or frustrated and bored.  When I started again, I decided to give up on shooting a good score and instead try to do the basics correctly. Also followed Jon E’s advice to me to train just one thing at a time.  Ignore where the shot landed.

Shooting became boring in a different way, because I am no longer shooting bullseyes and 10s.  I’m standing there working on manipulating a trigger. Or just staring at a front sight.  Or adjusting my stance or grip.  But my scores have gotten better so no frustration. 

Not sure if that’s helpful info or makes any sense.  Basically I stopped trying to shoot a 10 or even a 9, but rather executing single, disconnected aspects, devoid of any other distractions (such as a target bull 25 yards away which I have no control over).

Edit, suddenly, too, I started calling shots more accurately. And a wide shot became easy to ignore.

john bickar wrote:

chiz1180 wrote:

john bickar wrote:

chiz1180 wrote:even if you don't, what changes?

This is a very solid open-ended question to ask yourself, whatever level you are at.

Anecdotes are not data; nevertheless, I have two:

This is not the first time I have heard of anecdotes like this.

I tend to repeat myself. It's part of my charm.

Ummm ...

If there's any charm at all...

The great thing about shooting is ...Unless you're some sort of Psycho ...

You're really only competing against yourself.

There really isn't anything... in the grand scheme of the world ... but you and your goals. And those goals are????

Beating all the low life scumbags that show up on ???

Seeing your average scores going up... to whatever level  you can reasonably achieve given your age?

Or is being out there with your friends and comrades, on a nice day, enough?

'It's a sport, not a way of life' ...

Happy Thanksgiving shooters! 

Now there is a sequel:  My range currently has a turkey (target) shoot contest, with same rules as before (centerfire pistol, 45', 6 shots / 30 seconds).

In last month's saga I ended with 2nd place, which is not bad but only 1st place gets a prize (deluxe range membership).  I try to shoot on Weds afternoons (off work early) and the plan was to do the usual shooting routine (BE 50' .22 then .45) and try a contest target if I was feeling and shooting ok.  Last week was too shaky but yesterday I felt pretty good, though I didn't clean any rapid targets with the 22.  My first 45 targets were not great but as is often the case I noticed I was shooting more for score than process. After repeating my process steps out loud a few times the groups got smaller.  Though I was nervous (in competition, as usual), I decided to try a timed target - concentrating on keeping the dot centered while triggering....thinking about a stable dot / not the shot.

https://postimg.cc/YLBWHFtg

Like the prior contest my group is now the smallest, and also like last time there are 12 days left in the contest!      

I have a love/hate relationship with competitions: overly competitive + anxious about the outcome.  Hats off to you guys who compete all the time!

There is no experience quite like “  its yours to lose” in a multi day match. 

Match pressure is a real monster for many. The more you want it, the harder it is. Shooting well is easy, shooting poorly is hard work. I recall a top shooter who could put up super qualification scores for International matches but then crash in finals. Not JB, but he knows who. I keep messing up the P100 each year, partly because it’s only once per year and I care too much about my performance . In fact I don’t practice it enough to be super relaxed with it, like I am with a 22. I should shoot ball for the regular Perry matches and suffer lower relative scores. So go practice whatever you want to achieve without regard to score and the results will follow. Good luck

Match pressure - BAH HUMBUG!!!  Shoot one dang shot at a time, adhering to your shot process.  It DOESN'T MATTER if you're in a practice session, local league match or Camp Perry P-100/NTI/NTT, etc.
If you send off a poor shot, forget about it.  When you shoot a 10, savor that for a moment and then do it again.

Well the contest ended yesterday and tonight I got a call....I won the turkey shoot!

With this group shot a couple weeks ago:  https://postimg.cc/YLBWHFtg

Research in behavioural finance found that the positive emotions from winning (a certain amount) doesn't feel as bad as the negative emotions from losing (that same amount)*.  Likewise my 2nd place (loss) in the prior contest felt worse than winning this month's win feels good.

That said I am happy about it, and as many of you pointed out there were some good lessons obtained doing it.  Concentrating on sight and triggering, keeping cool under pressure (cool as possible, anyway), deep breaths before starting, and others.

I doubt the gun played much of a role at 45',  but here is the LB I used (with some down-loaded commercial 185 gr. reloads).  It has a slide-mounted Vortex dot and very nice Fung grips purchased here.

https://postimg.cc/7CgptCgB

Thanks to all of you for your very instructive insights on Bullseye-L!



*Which in part explains why stocks go up over time