HV vs SV .22lr

For matches, I exclusively use target grade .22lr. There is no doubt that the groups are tighter. For practice, I shoot a lot of Federal Auto Match. It seems to be a good balance between cost, reliability, and accuracy. The chronograph shows as much as 50fps between shots, but a 20-30 fps spread is more likely. 
I just bought a 100% new X-ESSE sport. Several sources, including the manual, suggest that SV ammo is what should always be used. Federal AM from a 4.5" barrel is around 1150fps. So, technically, it is HV, but just barely....

Would you consider Fed AM truly HV ammo?

Owners of the x-esse (and cousins), have you experienced problems with your pistol(s) when using a mild HV ammo?

TIA

If you practice with markedly poorer ammo than you compete with, how do you determine what error is you and which is ammo?

STEVE SAMELAK wrote:If you practice with markedly poorer ammo than you compete with, how do you determine what error is you and which is ammo?

Groups are groups. Deviation from the expected value is still a reflection of ability regardless of precision achieved. In other words, I can still tell if I shot a good group because I track group size.

There is also the $ to consider... Eley is quite proud of their product.

If you are to learn to call your shots, it's important to have relatively accurate ammo to train with.

DA/SA wrote:If you are to learn to call your shots, it's important to have relatively accurate ammo to train with.

FedAM is accurate enough to call shots.... 


It's not like I'm at the range with a slingshot and pond skipping stones....

ding-a-ling wrote:

DA/SA wrote:If you are to learn to call your shots, it's important to have relatively accurate ammo to train with.

FedAM is accurate enough to call shots.... 


It's not like I'm at the range with a slingshot and pond skipping stones....

If Federal Auto Match will consistently hold the ten ring at 50 yards, it is good enough. The question is, does it?

If Federal Auto Match will consistently hold the ten ring at 50 yards, it is good enough. The question is, does it?

A topic for another time....

How about velocity and the effect on the x-esse?

ding-a-ling wrote:

If Federal Auto Match will consistently hold the ten ring at 50 yards, it is good enough. The question is, does it?

A topic for another time....

How about velocity and the effect on the x-esse?

I have been using that ammo for quite awhile. Having said that, I am long retired from bullseye pistol competition. I do regularly shoot once a week and shoot it in a Sig P322 and S&W model 18-3 revolver. It doesn't seem to be overly powerful, but the empties do eject pretty forcefully out of my pistol. When I take my bullseye pistols out for a shooting session, I use CCI Standard Velocity or SK Standard because of the accuracy, reliability and lower velocity. Pistols are just mini-machines. Just like cars, if you are hard on them, they won't go as long without something breaking. Is it worth it to save the money on cheaper ammo? The decision is yours. Whether you like hearing it or not, accuracy of practice, as well as, match ammo, should also be a consideration. If you are at the stage in your shooting where you shoot a lot of wide shots (5's and 6's) that you call, then ammo accuracy isn't that much of a factor.

Just shoot subsonic ammo. The gun isn’t designed around or sprung for supersonic ammo. FedAM is supersonic ammo. You’re not shooting a Ruger. The X-esse guns are not Pardinis, but they’re also not cheap.

How much are you shooting?

I go through a brick of .22 each month. Not a lot, but regular shooting (50-100 round practice sessions, one of which might be an indoor 900, plus an outdoor match). I stopped buying CCI SV because I was only saving $25-30 per month versus Eley Club and Eley Target. That’s an easy sum to save elsewhere in the grand scheme of things.

If it was my new X-esse, I'd avoid anything but SV ammo; on accounta that slide stop on the drop down trigger guard being prone to breaking. - I think? 2¢.

ding_a_ling don´t use Federal Auto Match in X-ESSE sport. 4.5" barrel with 1150fps this is too much, in this barrel it would be about 900fps for SV. But it is your gun but not so long. I have been gunsmith for over 20 years.
Greetings from Sweden
Toni

Here are my results of 22 velocities fired from a pistol.  This includes Auto Match.  While that had a velocity of 1050 fps that only means a 5%-10%  increase in blowback momentum.  As an engineer, I find it VERY HARD to conclude that increase would damage a gun that was properly designed.

Wobbley wrote:Here are my results of 22 velocities fired from a pistol.  This includes Auto Match.  While that had a velocity of 1050 fps that only means a 5%-10%  increase in blowback momentum.  As an engineer, I find it VERY HARD to conclude that increase would damage a gun that was properly designed.

Thanks!

Honestly, 50/50 across the interweb yea vs nay on the mild HV. Thanks for the statistics.

I googled the manual:

All xesse pistols are .22 cal standard or high velocity weapons...

DA/SA wrote:I googled the manual:

All xesse pistols are .22 cal standard or high velocity weapons...

There is some inconsistency among the manuals. I have consulted 4 or five from various models and years and the results are not concurrent.

The manyal for the pistol I just bought new says SV.

I guess it is like any other machine.... ymmv.

I only looked in one manual, but if the manual for yours states SV, that's what I would use.

There seem to be lots of Norma TAC 22 users that are happy with it, and the last I bought was about six cents a round after shipping, if you are wanting inexpensive SV that shoots well. Also a couple more on Wobbly's list such as the Magtech SV.

I don't have an Xesse, but I use CCI SV and Aguila SV for training ammo, both reasonably priced per round if bought in bulk.

I don't have an xesse but I used fed AM in my victory. It was plenty accurate enough. The problem was that it would bounce off the nylon slide stop too fast and cause FTFs. I decided to keep the HV ammo for pistols with heavier slides.

Centerline wrote:I don't have an xesse but I used fed AM in my victory. It was plenty accurate enough. The problem was that it would bounce off the nylon slide stop too fast and cause FTFs. I decided to keep the HV ammo for pistols with heavier slides.

My now back-up .22 is an old S&W 22A. It is plenty accurate, just not very ergonomic.... I bet that I have run 20k rounds of Federal Auto Match through it without incident. I've had to replace the buffer a couple times, but I think they were designed to last about 5k rounds no matter what ammo is used. It would jam once in about every 300 rounds. That was my indication to give it a quick scrub. 

I'm sure the 22A slide and the Victory slide are very similar in weight.

The X-Esse likes a variety of ammo. The stand out is probably Wolf Match Extra. The surprise fail was Eley Match.... The oddity was CCI Quiet Subsonic @710fps. Unsurprisingly, it failed to cycle the x-esse but put 3 right on top on each other. The Quiet and Browning PRO 22 are not pictured. .45acp for scale. From a rest at 50', 2moa dot...

Dear Ding A Ling:

There is a verified defect on the front of the trigger guard/slide stop for the trailside/exxess series of pistols.  It is caused by use of supersonic ammo.  This can be researched on the rimfire central forums.  

I recommend that you discontinue the use of Federal Auto Match in that pistol.  

Regards,
Crankster

CrankyThunder wrote:Dear Ding A Ling:

There is a verified defect on the front of the trigger guard/slide stop for the trailside/exxess series of pistols.  It is caused by use of supersonic ammo.  This can be researched on the rimfire central forums.  

I recommend that you discontinue the use of Federal Auto Match in that pistol.  

Regards,
Crankster

I found what looks like the most relevant RC forum post (which you may have contributed to) before purchasing the new x-esse. An inspection of my pistol this am shows that the trigger guard fit has been machined. There is a gap between the vertical tab of the guard (slide over-travel stop?) and the frame. My son has a walther PP, and I have had a few clones in the past. In each case, the guard vertical tab serves the same purpose. I have seen a few references that explain that the guard provides the last bit of spring pressure against slide rearward travel. IDK if this methodology was carried into the Olympia DNA... only a Walther enginerd in a cubicle somewhere would know. 

I would ask that Walther engineer if this problem was specifically addressed. I have not found any posts, in relevant forums, regarding RECENT production pistols that have this problem. It would be great if Walther could share a TSB section of sorts where specific S/N ranges of pistols had X problem. Of course, in our modern litigious world, that would be a horrible mistake.