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22RF force or recoil measurement

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Post by Multiracer 11/21/2024, 5:23 pm

Have any of you talented people figured out a way to measure the the force created by the normal .22RF 140G projectile ?
Something in pounds ?
Is this available from Sammi or a ballistic app ?

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Post by Wobbley 11/21/2024, 7:34 pm

For what purpose?  Recoil? Blowback? Operating the slide?
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Post by Multiracer 11/22/2024, 5:49 am

To understand the measurable force it creates when it goes bang.

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Post by chiz1180 11/22/2024, 6:37 am

Conservation of energy equation using muzzle velocity and projectile weight. The trick for calculating the “apparent” force that is felt is all the places in the system that energy is turned into heat or is counteracted by some mechanism.
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Post by Multiracer 11/22/2024, 7:14 am

chiz1180 wrote:Conservation of energy equation using muzzle velocity and projectile weight. The trick for calculating the “apparent” force that is felt is all the places in the system that energy is turned into heat or is counteracted by some mechanism.
https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi




Recoil
Input Data
Charge Weight:1.0 grMuzzle Velocity:1070.0 ft/s
Firearm Weight:15.0 lbBullet Weight:140.0 gr
Output Data
Recoil Velocity:1.5 ft/sRecoil Energy:0.5 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse:0.7 lb•s
22-Nov-24 06:21











Bullet Weight (5.0 to 15000.0 gr) [168.0] [?]
  gr gm 
Charge Weight (1.0 to 500.0 gr) [41.0] [?]
  gr gm 
Muzzle Velocity (500.0 to 4800.0 ft/s) [2800.0] [?]
  ft/s m/s 
Firearm Weight (0.1 to 200.0 lb) [7.0] [?]
  lb kg 



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Post by sharkdoctor 11/22/2024, 9:01 am

Well, simply, F=mass *acceleration, where mass could be estimated as bullet (40gr) + powder (1.2gr).  Acceleration would need to be estimated, since measurement is difficult, although we know that both reach about 1000 ft/sec in 5" of barrel.  Your units for F would then be grains * feet/sec*sec, not exactly using SI units.  Of course it depends on what you might want to use this for - I will leave you with the calculations!

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Post by Multiracer 11/22/2024, 10:37 am

This something I am working on , SV ammo, 24" barrel, 15lb rifle.

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Post by Wobbley 11/22/2024, 11:15 am

Here is the SAAMI info on the expected pressures of the ammo the MAX Mean pressures and chamber/bore dimensions.  Note that the drawing requires a minimum bore area with all lands and grooves is. 0382 sq. In.   This means that the expected max force of a 22 LR is a hair below 1100 pounds.  Remember, that this load is a calculated load based on maximum allowable pressure.  So I’d add a bit of a load factor of, say, 1.3 to be conservative.  

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Post by Multiracer 11/22/2024, 11:59 am

https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi


I have a mistake in what I showed. The bullet weight should be 40G NOT 140G.
I must have been thinking of my 6.5 CM.

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Post by inthebeech 11/23/2024, 7:02 am

About 934 pounds-force.  This is obviously never felt because that is a static calculation only and long before anything like this is felt ( because you have to first transmit that force through the mass of the various parts of the gun) the pressure that created that theoretical force has dropped off exponentially. So the breech face of the gun does indeed feel that force (for maybe a few milliseconds?) but the gun’s mass prevents your hand from ever seeing it.  When you see the various calculations of recoil and such, you see values only of energy and perhaps momentum, not force, because neither work-energy nor impulse-momentum theories can give you actual maximum felt force over some period of time in which energy is transmitted. It has to be measured empirically.  Not sure if it is even possible.
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